Lucy Connolly appeal Rejected

So far as I’m aware, mothers who incite racial hatred, arson and murder don’t avoid the prison sentence those offences are given

I’ll check up to date statistics but over the forty years I was involved enough to observe, women often got harsher sentences than men. Especially for violent offences or those traditionally associated with male offending .

Primrose53

Galaxy

It isn't only me and you Oreo, lots of discussion from many including those on the left about the sentencing, the tweet etc.

Thousands of people agree with you Galaxy. I have listened to many radio phone ins and TV discussions regarding this and I would say the overwhelming majority agree with you.

Nobody agrees with the comments she made, but there is no proof her comments incited anybody to take part in criminal activities. Often Mothers are spared prison if they have young children, which she has. They are punished by other means. She has been singled out for special treatment which was announced before she was sentenced and that is very wrong.

Seema Misra and Janine Powell, unjustly accused of defrauding the Post Office, were sentenced to prison regardless of the fact they were pregnant or mothers of young children. They were not the only ones jailed while those responsible still walk free.

Primrose53

Galaxy

It isn't only me and you Oreo, lots of discussion from many including those on the left about the sentencing, the tweet etc.

Thousands of people agree with you Galaxy. I have listened to many radio phone ins and TV discussions regarding this and I would say the overwhelming majority agree with you.

Nobody agrees with the comments she made, but there is no proof her comments incited anybody to take part in criminal activities. Often Mothers are spared prison if they have young children, which she has. They are punished by other means. She has been singled out for special treatment which was announced before she was sentenced and that is very wrong.

A twelve year old child is hardly young.

Galaxy

It isn't only me and you Oreo, lots of discussion from many including those on the left about the sentencing, the tweet etc.

Why does it matter how many people think as you do? Is this mob rule now? Those who shout the loudest get what they want. I thought your argument was that you were being cowed from expressing yourself because others think differently. All very bizarre!

Primrose53

Galaxy

It isn't only me and you Oreo, lots of discussion from many including those on the left about the sentencing, the tweet etc.

Thousands of people agree with you Galaxy. I have listened to many radio phone ins and TV discussions regarding this and I would say the overwhelming majority agree with you.

Nobody agrees with the comments she made, but there is no proof her comments incited anybody to take part in criminal activities. Often Mothers are spared prison if they have young children, which she has. They are punished by other means. She has been singled out for special treatment which was announced before she was sentenced and that is very wrong.

That’s exactly what has been discussed on this thread though. Some people agree, some people disagree. Some people think she was made an example of, some think she got the correct sentence for the crime. Some people think having a twelve year old child and having lost a baby is mitigation, some people don’t. There isn’t a right or wrong, there is opinion.That’s the real world. As my Dad always says, ‘Life’s a bitch, and then you die’.

growstuff

Primrose53

Galaxy

It isn't only me and you Oreo, lots of discussion from many including those on the left about the sentencing, the tweet etc.

Thousands of people agree with you Galaxy. I have listened to many radio phone ins and TV discussions regarding this and I would say the overwhelming majority agree with you.

Nobody agrees with the comments she made, but there is no proof her comments incited anybody to take part in criminal activities. Often Mothers are spared prison if they have young children, which she has. They are punished by other means. She has been singled out for special treatment which was announced before she was sentenced and that is very wrong.

A twelve year old child is hardly young.

A twelve year old child is hardly young

But 12 year olds are still young and at a vulnerable stage in their lives.
Certainly at an age where his/her mother going to prison (for a crime she did not commit) would be a traumatic experience.
Even if exonerated, no amount of compensation would be sufficient to erase that time.

Oh dear! Maybe her mother should have thought about that before she behaved as she did. Maybe she would have been a better role model for an impressionable child.

In any case, her mother did commit a crime, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Nobody agrees with the comments she made, but there is no proof her comments incited anybody to take part in criminal activities.

Sorry but what an absurd statement, the state of civil disorder that was happening at the time of the tweet was such that it would be completely impossible to 'prove' incitement and the aim of the authorities would be to impose control before things really got out of hand. If some people got emotional and reactive then they need to learn not to. Mob rule is never pretty or acceptable.

It's about time some kind of control was exerted over social media platforms and tabloid newspapers which are allowed to publish lies, conspiracy theories and downright misinformation with no requirement that they take responsibility for the outcome. Doubtless they would say that there is no connection between what they publish and how people behave, there used to be integrity in the press and in civil society in the UK, but it has vanished along with a decent education system. Some people are the fall guys through stupidity or a lack of control, Connolly was one of those.

She entered a guilty plea so she will have received a lighter sentence than she would have if she had gone to trial and been found guilty. fwiw it was not necessary to prove that anyone acted upon her tweet, she was guilty of "incitement"!

Following are the original sentencing remarks:

crimeline.co.uk/lucy-connolly-sentencing-remarks-17-october-2024/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=lucy-connolly-sentencing-remarks-17-october-2024

She did receive a 25% reduction in the sentence. The remarks also show that the judge was aware of her child, previous good character, tragic loss of her son 12 years previously and her deletion of the tweet. The judge said that he had to balance all factors.

These were his comments about her mental state and later contrition:

"In relation to the offence I have regard to the fact that although it was widely read, you did not repeat any such statement and in due course deleted it and you sent some messages to the effect that violence was not the answer.

You have had tragedy in your own life with the loss of your very young child some years ago. I have read the psychiatric report from some twelve years ago as to the psychiatric difficulties you then suffered.

I accept that you still very keenly feel that loss.

There is no recent psychiatric evidence and whilst you may well have understood the grief of those who suffered their own tragic losses in Southport you did not send a message of understanding and comfort but rather an incitement to hatred. There is no evidence of any mental disorder having any material affect on you committing this offence.

Similarly whilst I accept you regret your actions and I have been referred to messages in which you say that you disagree with racism and violence, it is clear from the evidence of your own words in the days following your actions, what you said to the police and what you said to the probation officer that you have little insight into, or acceptance of, your actions."

The appeal was never based on any right to free speech, so the Free Speech Union is just using the case as a political football.

I don't see the link between personal tragedy and racist tweets personally?

I was going to mention some of the points growstuff has.

I don't think I've seen a case for a long time where completely different pictures are painted of an offender.

On the one hand, a picture of the "nice" lady who has suffered and just being picked on for a few hurty words that we don't agree with, but really, they are minor really and she's being kept from her family and we should give them money (as their resources were spent on the appeal)

This is being pushed so hard much is being ignored - her claims of "not being racist" and that it was a "blip" simply don't wash.

This "nice lady" was a regular poster on X and 4 days before the Southport murders

..... posted a video which had been shared online by Tommy Robinson showing a black make being tackled to the ground for allegedly masturbating in public and added
" Somalian, I guess." and a vomiting emoji

5 days after the "set them on fire" X post she posted commenting on an anti racist demo

"llegal boat invader then. Oh sorry, refugee. Maybe sign a waive to say they don’t mind if it’s one of their family that gets attacked, butchered, raped etc, by unvetted criminals. Not all heroes wear capes".

she then made fun of her setting fire post to a friend two days later
"“The raging tweet about burning down hotels has bit me on the arse lol.”

she thought it was funny

She also said she knew that the police and Ofsted had been tagged in some of the posts. She said that if Ofsted were to get involved, she would tell them it was not her and that she had been the victim of doxing (which we understand to mean the act of publishing private or identifying information about a particular individual, typically with malicious intent).

She went on to say that if she got arrested she would “play the mental health card”.

I feel really terribly sorry for her daughter but it needn't have ever happened if she hadn't paraded her hatred and threats.

growstuff

Oh dear! Maybe her mother should have thought about that before she behaved as she did. Maybe she would have been a better role model for an impressionable child.

In any case, her mother did commit a crime, so I don't know what you're talking about.

I was talking about the wrong imprisonment of those prosecuted by the Post Office.

I will reiterate:
But 12 year olds are still young and at a vulnerable stage in their lives.

Perhaps the mother you ars referring to may re-address her views now she has time to reflect

Well I think that says it all about Lucy Connolly, a very unpleasant person with some very nasty ideas which she's not afraid to share with equally nasty people.

Lucy Connolly isn’t the victim here. She’s the perpetrator

Allira

growstuff

Oh dear! Maybe her mother should have thought about that before she behaved as she did. Maybe she would have been a better role model for an impressionable child.

In any case, her mother did commit a crime, so I don't know what you're talking about.

I was talking about the wrong imprisonment of those prosecuted by the Post Office.

I will reiterate:
But 12 year olds are still young and at a vulnerable stage in their lives.

Perhaps the mother you ars referring to may re-address her views now she has time to reflect

I apologise for the misunderstanding. I agree that those prosecuted by the Post Office didn't commit any crimes.

growstuff

Allira

growstuff

Oh dear! Maybe her mother should have thought about that before she behaved as she did. Maybe she would have been a better role model for an impressionable child.

In any case, her mother did commit a crime, so I don't know what you're talking about.

I was talking about the wrong imprisonment of those prosecuted by the Post Office.

I will reiterate:
But 12 year olds are still young and at a vulnerable stage in their lives.

Perhaps the mother you ars referring to may re-address her views now she has time to reflect

I apologise for the misunderstanding. I agree that those prosecuted by the Post Office didn't commit any crimes.

I think the thread meandered somewhat.

Iam64

Lucy Connolly isn’t the victim here. She’s the perpetrator

Yes! She is a criminal poor and simple- it was the evidence against her that put her in prison. If she had kept her malicious thoughts to herself she wouldn't be there...

I can't help wondering if there would be the same outcry and crowd funding support if LC had not been a white woman unjustly and incorrectly blaming refugees for the murder of children. I'm not going to try to come up with an example because the death of any child is dreadful but I'm sure you get my point.
I was upset by the death of the children but it never crossed my mind to make the connection between the murder of children at a dance studio and setting fire to hotels housing refugees. What sort of mind do you need to think like that? She did this on the same day of the murders with absolutely no knowledge of who the murderer was or why he did it, but she went straight to social media to use the situation to incite people to burn refugees. What's more, the police found similar sorts of racist messages in previous tweets etc. She admitted guilt because she would have been found guilty and had an even longer sentence! Saying she wasn't aware of the consequences of admitting her guilt would not have helped her appeal, accepting guilt and showing contrition would have been more appropriate.

What sort of mind do you need to think like that?

I think it's common, sadly.

What prompted her tweet was a claim doing the rounds on SM that an asylum seeker was the perpetrator of the terrible Southport dance studio child victims.It was presented as a fact but subsequently found to be untrue.

Exactly. Unsubstantiated rumours, often on SM, are very dangerous, and IMO cannot be minimised by phrases like 'hurty words'. Those responsible deserve to be taken out of circulation for the safety of the rest of us.

I think that something we can all agree on is that racist and incitement type posted comments online are unacceptable but we can agree to disagree on what is prison worthy.
In a time where prisons are close to overflowing and sentences going to be cut for even violent and rapist offenders it’s a good idea for the authorities to overhaul the whole prison process.
We jail far more than other European countries.

We imprison more than any other European country. We have a high repeat offending rate. 40 years ago the probation service was developing good alternatives to prison. We re obsessed with locking people up. Plus it’s undeniable Tay the last government ran down our criminal justice system with disastrous results
None of this changes the fact the under our guidance, this woman was always going to be sent to prison. She pleaded guilty knowing her sentence would be reduced as a result

Why has this woman been singled out for 'compassion', I wonder? Comparing her sentence with those of rapists and violent offenders makes no sense (although I would say that her offence was violent in word if not deed). Why not compare her with shoplifters or those who don't pay TV licences? Is the argument about comparing length of sentences for different crimes or about the fact that this was about race?

The message that words do matter is coming through loud and clear, as is the fact that we need to be careful with social media. Gary Lineker's tweet is a case in point. It's no bad thing, IMO. We maybe need more education about what is and is not acceptable, and some allowance may need to be made for the inarticulate or those who don't understand nuances in things like emojis (eg me, although even I knew about the Nazi propaganda that used rats to depict Jews as, vermin), but now that X has no controls thanks to Elon Musk someone has to take the reins and stop the UK falling victim to those who use SM to promulgate racism and division.