Women in the US been downgraded

Medical negligence compensation payments must be due to the family? Small comfort of course but I would hope that all medical bills are covered.

Further to this, I understand that there has been an increase in female deaths from sepsis in certain states in the USA following a miscarriage.
Following an incomplete miscarriage, the contents of the uterus are usually removed medically.
Some states do not permit this until some time has passed from the cessation of fetal heartbeat. The opening to the womb is open, then, to infection, endangering the life of the woman, who may, of course, have other children .

I don't think it's bad journalism, its an article specifically focussing on the Georgia State laws on abortion, levels of health care provision in that state, and designed to raise issues on the consequences of them by looking at one case.

There is very limited information on the family, but that may well be because of concerns to give them privacy in one of the most distressing and fraught issues that could occur.

(The other issue is that its written for a US audience who will know more about aspects of it and don't need it spelling it out in an article)

I hope the go fund me money helps any pursuit in law to help those who can best care for the family, but having to pay for that is yet another "its OK if you are well off".

‘How do we know he did not’ you say Macadia well how do we know that he did?!
Introducing this into the thread is scurrilous.Nowhere in the article does it even imply it.

Oreo

The pregnant woman was already ill, you can’t just more or less accuse the partner/ boyfriend of murder in public like this!

She was already ill? I didn't read that anywhere. I read that she had an awful headache.

I got an awful headache after being strangled and nearly died from multiple aneurysms, hemorrhaging with fluid on the brain. I learned that it is usually and indetectable crime with symptoms showing up days after the violence.

I will correct you here: I did not "more or less accuse the boyfriend." I asked how do we know he did not?

The baby's grandmother, (April Newkirk), has a GoFund me.

In the US, the baby's grandmother, by law, has zero visitation rights to the born child unless the child's father has signed papers to terminate his parental rights or if the child's father's interactions would harm the baby in which they could petition the courts; or if the grandparents are petitioning the courts to allow visits since one parent has died. They can't just take away the baby because they want to.

I would call this story bad journalism.

Yes, I have cared for women in this situation, but not many and certainly not as early as 9 weeks gestation.

I am fairly sure this situation would be handled differently here and would depend on many circumstances.

I am unsure that such a pregnancy would show up on scan, it is too soon but I am out of the loop a little now, and so I feel that such a situation would be impossible to monitor at such an early stage. Scans only used to be carried at at twelve weeks.

Rosie51

If this was a 30 week pregnancy I could understand the desire (with family agreement) to keep the mum on life support for one or two weeks to give the baby a better chance of survival without severe health consequences. A nine week pregnancy being prolonged is, in my opinion, beyond the pale.

As Doodledog articulated so well earlier in the thread the rights of women are being discarded at an alarming rate. All that had been achieved in almost 100 years to advance the equality and autonomy of women is being eroded in a matter of a few years. Men in powerful positions decide what rights women may or may not enjoy, and even who may be a woman. I look to countries like Afghanistan and feel for their women with their absence of any autonomy. We think it couldn't happen in the West, but situations like these draconian abortion laws progress us one step nearer. Like Doodledog I expected that my granddaughters wouldn't have to face the inequalities earlier generations had, but they already are and things will only get worse unless we halt this patriarchal march now.

So well said Rosie51 👏👏👏

The pregnant woman was already ill, you can’t just more or less accuse the partner/ boyfriend of murder in public like this!

Blood clots in the brain.

The perfect undetectable form of domestic violence. I've learned too much on the subject lately.

Macadia

How do we know that a strangulation did not happen? Where is the boyfriend now?

😲
Where’s this coming from?

To illustrate the problem with the world today, here is a year 2024 map depicting which nations have women leaders.

I think to combat the issue with women around the world losing autonomy, we need to raise daughters/granddaughters to have an interest in law, politics and government positions. I'm not saying that women are without fault and can do a better job than men. I am saying that they have equal capabilities to listen, learn and make decisions on behalf of nations.

I am guessing that woman would be more likely to treat female citizens as humans and not portray them as cows.

Gilead for sure

If this was a 30 week pregnancy I could understand the desire (with family agreement) to keep the mum on life support for one or two weeks to give the baby a better chance of survival without severe health consequences. A nine week pregnancy being prolonged is, in my opinion, beyond the pale.

As Doodledog articulated so well earlier in the thread the rights of women are being discarded at an alarming rate. All that had been achieved in almost 100 years to advance the equality and autonomy of women is being eroded in a matter of a few years. Men in powerful positions decide what rights women may or may not enjoy, and even who may be a woman. I look to countries like Afghanistan and feel for their women with their absence of any autonomy. We think it couldn't happen in the West, but situations like these draconian abortion laws progress us one step nearer. Like Doodledog I expected that my granddaughters wouldn't have to face the inequalities earlier generations had, but they already are and things will only get worse unless we halt this patriarchal march now.

If we look at the O/P video, by law Ms Smith was required to wait 24 hours for time critical lifesaving care, and she had to be transferred to another hospital for something as basic as a CT scan.

Other details are in the video and the article that specifically addresses black women's maternity care. in Georgia that I quoted and posted.

The USA has a nigher infant mortality rate than the UK, so although clearly we in the UK might do better....

...its highlighting that the richest country in the world doesn't look after its women and its directly related to income, availability of care for low income famlies and race.

But the crucial difference is that in the Uk a doctor can make decisions with the family in early pregnancies. Ms Smiths doctors (its in the video) had to put it to a committee with lawyers (more delay) and that did not involve consultation with the family.

Oreo

I honestly don’t know how I would have reacted as the Grandmother just after my daughter died and suspect we would all have chosen different outcomes.The wishes of her family and the Father of the baby should have been taken into account of course.
This particular State says over 6 weeks of pregnancy is the limit.
Where should the line be drawn in poster’s opinion?

In my opinion, if the being in the womb was viable then the hospital could remove it and perform life-saving measures to his body but not medical care on the diseased mother.

If a 6 - 9 weeks pregnant mother dies, the fetus, (which is the size of an olive), dies, too. This is a natural process for a reason.

How do we know that a strangulation did not happen? Where is the boyfriend now?

I don't know if the pregnancy caused the blood clots but that is a common cause of death in childbirth. If she were in another country, she probably would have been taken care of properly. In the US, a lot of black women die in pregnancy and childbirth - even nurses and doctors. It is more complicated than genetics. It is partly to do with unconscious biases among medical teams and it also encompasses the stress of living in the US which already has a high infant mortality rate for all women.

Did Ms Smith’s pregnancy cause the blood clot which killed her??
Some white patients in the NHS have also suffered considerably from misdiagnosis etc ….

(its a 2025 article)

If Mum had been white and middle class, proper medical early intervention might have prevented the whole thing happening.

You think I'm making this up?

"In Georgia, Black women face the highest risk for severe pregnancy complications, and state public health data show they’re more than twice as likely as white women to die from maternal mortality.

www.msm.edu/RSSFeedArticles/2024/September/Georgia-Maternal-Health-Disparities.php

I can't really imagine what the grandparents are going through. It's bad enough to know that your daughter has died, but there isn't even any closure. There can't be a funeral yet and they can't even begin to grieve.

I don't know whether they knew their daughter was pregnant - it's very possible they didn't. There will be all sorts of conflicting emotions about trying to keep the baby alive and well. Great, if the baby is born well and it's easy to find childcare arrangements (there's already another child who's lost its mother). It wouldn't be how one would wish, but at least they'd have a child as a reminder of their own lost daughter.

However, the realities are that they're already having to look after the remaining child - apparently they've said that the mother is asleep. They're probably worried about any disabilities the unborn child will have and how they're going to deal with that. Apparently, the medical care is costing a fortune and they're having to rely on GoFundMe.

I really don't know how I'd cope with all that. That's why I would not have wanted the pregnancy to continue. However, as I'd have no choice, I'd just have to carry on - I hope they have very strong support available.

This is my understanding of the law in Georgia:

If Ms Smith had died without being pregnant, her next of kin could have decided to switch off her life support. I believe she's not married, so her next of kin would be her parents.

Abortion in Georgia is effectively illegal after detection of embryonic cardiac-cell activity, which means about two or three weeks after implantation. Many women don't even realise they're pregnant at that stage.

Pregnant women can't have their life support switched off. In many states and countries, a nine week old fetus (which is what the lady was carrying) could be aborted, then the life support could be switched off legally, if the next of kin agree. In this case, the next of kin had no say in the matter.

Ms Smith didn't have a living will, so her next of kin are her parents. I'm not sure who the baby's next of kin is (maybe his father?), but it's irrelevant because the law states the life support of pregnant women can't be switched off.

Apparently, the abortion law in Georgia was ruled unconstitutional by a superior court judge, but it's still in effect until the state's appeal is heard.

LizzieDrip

growstuff

If I were the grandparents of this child, I think I might say the same because I always tend to think positively and make the best of whatever situation I'm in. Nevertheless, if I'd been involved in any plans when the daughter died, I would have asked the medics to let the unborn child die. I find the idea of using the dead woman as a human incubator grotesque, apart from the very high risk that the child will be born with significant disability. I wouldn't regard the grandparent's positivity now as unqualified endorsement of what's happening.

Agreed Growstuff.

Agreed. Also noting the grandmother has said different things on different occasions What about the father who after all is the parent. How will family cope with long term expensive care if there are significant disabilities.

It's all grotesque, from the point at which the daughter failed to receive initial proper care - which she might if they had a well off background, to the family being railroaded by anxious doctors getting a lawyers opinion instead of letting a natural process happen, to the doctors who may well have a "Scientific Interest", ending up with this dead human incubator torturing family feelings (the grandmother did use the words "tortured")

in the glare of publicity, lives controlled by State Law and the uncertainties of GofundMe

Instead of a dignified family funeral. Wrong, wrong, grotesque indeed.

Seems a bit strange to me that grandparents are thought to have ownership of the foetus in these circumstances. Surely the father has more rights? Was he consulted? Since there seems to be a complete change of opinion by the maternal grandmother, if the foetus had been killed at 9 weeks there would have been no way back.