Madeleine McCann

I have never thought for a moment that the parents were involved in the child's disappearance . I have always thought that the child was kidnapped for nefarious purposes and probably quickly killed because her identifying eye-marking would have made her too hot to handle.
When you think about it the McCanns were really , really unlucky.Others in the holiday party were doing the same thing but the McCann's apartment was exposed being on the end of the block.
I wish that her fate could have been uncovered only to ease what must have been a torturous 18 years for the parents.
I am very surprised by the German Police who more or less said that they had conclusive evidence that this Breuckner person did it but not a single charge has been brought. Epic fail by them I'm afraid.
I was glad that the McCanns were given a fair crack of the whip with a UK Police investigation to correct the incompetent Portugese police investigation. I think however that funding for the search by the British taxpayer should have been stopped years ago. It surely displaces investigations into other missing persons and children who matter no less.

I do wonder if the high profile nature of this case is a class thing.

It’s almost as if this had been a single mum from a council estate people’s judgement would have been along the lines of … ‘well, what can you expect; feckless; negligent etc’.

But, middle class doctors … oh no, this sort of thing doesn’t happen to ‘nice’ respectable people like them.

Even politicians have become involved with the case. Maybe it held up a mirror to some ‘entitled’ middle / upper class behaviour.

Sadly, the McCanns paid the highest price possible for their evening out … the life of their daughter. Truly tragic, and I’m sure they will forever regret their decision

Actually, I feel it is time the McCanns faced up to the fact that it is very, very unlikely that their daughter is still alive.

By now, she is old enough to have got in touch if she is somewhere and doubts that the people or person she regards as parents actually are her parents.

The man who is now being investigated for the second, if not the third time, has one, perhaps more, previous convictions for molesting little boys, which I would have thought makes him a very odd suspect in this case.

Nor, does it necessarily have to have been a pervet who kidnapped Madeleine.

It icould have been either someone who was unable to have a child and desperate to have one, or someone stealing a child to supply a childless rich couple with a little girl. If this is the case, the child could have been brainwashed into thinking that these people are her parents, by surely by now, she like the rest of the world will have heard of Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

I said at the time, that I could easily, if I were a criminal have got a little girl out of Portugal, into Spain and from there to France, simply by dying the child's and my own hair black, and walking camino de Santiago, saying we had started in Fàtima in Portugal and were going to Compostela and from there home to whichever country sounded realistic.

And if the McCanns have murdered their own child, why on earth would they do so when on holiday? Surely, it would have been far easier for them to do so at home, and claim the child had wandered off somewhere?

Not long ago earlier this year there was the mum of four who popped out to go shopping and the kids house was burned down. It was discussed on here. She is now in prison. She wasn’t out drinking and having fun with her mates.

Bukkie

It was and still isn't normal to leave young children home alone and go out for the night. I have no sympathy for the McCanns just heartbreak for Madeleine. It still staggers me that they were not prosecuted for child neglect and were allowed to keep the twins. A single mum from a council estate would have been treated less favourably.

Absolutely! But a single mum from a council estate might have been less likely to abandon her child than this entitled lot were!

The story about Madeleine asking her mother where she was the previous evening as she had been crying was in Kate McCann’s book. It’s not hearsay, speculation or gossip but was in the book written by Kate.

To me that’s the most astonishingly sad aspect of this whole story that despite knowing that their little daughter had woken upset they still felt it acceptable to go out night after night.

Someone mentioned how differently things would have been viewed had it been a couple on benefits from some rough estate.

I remember a journalist at the time said at the beginning all they had was a story that a small child had gone missing from a holiday apartment in Portugal while the parents were out eating and drinking at a restaurant.
The press apparently were intending to go to town with the ‘neglectful parents’ approach until it emerged that it was a a middle class couple, two doctors, and suddenly the approach was full of sympathy.

ViceVersa

Whatever happened to Madeleine, what saddens me most is the fact that children go missing all the time yet their cases do not attract a fraction of the attention or money spent on them as this case has. Are they any less important?
And yes, I'm sure we've all made mistakes as parents, but I can honestly say that I never left mine alone on holiday, nor do I know anyone else who would do the same.

While the whole case is horrific, I do agree with your comment about other cases which just seem to be pushed to one side...surely every child that goes missing is entitled to the same efforts to find them or find out what happened to them, if at all possible!
The Ben Needham and Katrice Lee cases immediately spring to mind.

I brought two boys up mostly on my own and although I'm sure I made mistakes - I never left either or both alone, it wouldn't have crossed my mind.

I’ve never known quite what to think about this if I am honest. It’s not something we would have done, but they have paid a high price. There have been many other cases over the years that have not had such a high profile. It’s a very sad situation.

Told me, not told E. Sorry

It was and still isn't normal to leave young children home alone and go out for the night. I have no sympathy for the McCanns just heartbreak for Madeleine. It still staggers me that they were not prosecuted for child neglect and were allowed to keep the twins. A single mum from a council estate would have been treated less favourably.

ViceVersa

Whatever happened to Madeleine, what saddens me most is the fact that children go missing all the time yet their cases do not attract a fraction of the attention or money spent on them as this case has. Are they any less important?
And yes, I'm sure we've all made mistakes as parents, but I can honestly say that I never left mine alone on holiday, nor do I know anyone else who would do the same.

I so agree, ViveVersa. Not only that but if my child told E a man had been in their room, there’s no way I would have left them again the next night. Not that I ever left my children alone, not ever and I can’t understand anyone who would. Forgetting the kidnap side, what if the child vomited, was feeling poorly and no-one was there to comfort and care for them? Poor little children.
Obviously the McCanns didn’t deserve what happened, no-one in the world deserves that, but I resent them for being uncaring enough that it could and did happen.

Whatever is said about the lack of judgement or common sense shown by the parents - and please remember there were 2 parents, don't keep saying "Kate this and Kate that". They paid the ultimate price.
Poor, poor souls.

I agree with Boz. Local police, accustomed to taking their children out with them in the evening, found the behaviours of this group of adults incomprehensible, so were inclined to draw certain conclusions, which led to some things being overlooked.
I don't know Portugal, but soon after this unfolded, was visiting friends who live in Spain. Their neighbours and friends in Southern Spain were very critical of the parents.
I fear that this somewhat blinkered view led to potential avenues being unexplored

Thank you , i thought at the time I read supper , I didn’t really
follow it, too distressing

It's absolultely bizarre behaviour really. They must have felt they were entitled to this lifestyle somehow.

Anniebach

Did the parents join friends for supper or only for drinks ?

They dined out with their friends every night, according to their own witness statements, and Kate McCann herself said that Madeleine told her how both she and her little brother Sean had been crying for their mum the previous night.

Did the parents join friends for supper or only for drinks ?

Those who say that it is cruel to question the parents' statements are basing that on their own feelings, not on the evidence.

I'm sure all of us did things we would do differently if we had our time again - we live and learn. I am not saying that leaving the children alone means that the McCanns deserved what happened. Not for a minute.

What I am saying is that the statements they made afterwards don't add up. Not the same thing at all.

I recall being very shocked to find out these parents had left their children alone to go and drink with friends. Yes, they were incredibly neglectful and paid a heavy price for their folly.
I suspect there are still parents out there like them, but in the end that little girl suffered in way she didn't deserve and she is where my sympathies lie...shows that some people care more about themselves than they do their children. No one seems to care about them anymore.

BBC showed a documentary earlier this year, followed by withdrawal of the documentary and apologies.

Trouble with witnesses some will lie to get attention

Anniebach

On Netflix ? As was The Crown , lies which I know of

Are you suggesting that because you didn't like The Crown (which was a drama, not a documentary) that means that everything on Netflix must be suspect?

KM is on film saying that Madeleine was crying for her the night before. It doesn't matter which channel screened it - in fact the Netflix documentary pulls together film and sources from various channels.

It is a very sad story, whatever happened, and I stress that I am not suggesting that the parents killed Madeleine. I just think that there are many unanswered questions about that night.

Doodledog

I don’t think that questioning the narrative that she was abducted is a conspiracy theory. Who would be conspiring with whom, and why?

I hope that CB is never released, as he is a dangerous man who should be locked up for life; but there is no evidence (AFAIK) that he was involved in the MM case. I hope, for Madeleine’s sake, that he wasn’t.

I don’t think it was the norm in 2007 to leave babies and toddlers alone when parents were out drinking. My children were 90s babies and nobody I knew would have dreamt of doing that. Also, the bar was not a similar distance to the bottom of the garden (unless you live in somewhere like Downton Abbey). It did not have a view of the apartment and was a five minute walk from the window (further to the door if anyone had planned to go in and look at the children).

The families had been at a different bar on the previous night (twice as far away) until after midnight and Madeleine (by her mother’s admission and evidenced by witnesses) had cried for her for over an hour when she woke and found herself alone. Would you go out (particularly when there was a crèche and a babysitting service on tap) knowing that your three year old had cried for hours the night before?

I can’t justify any of that, but agree that child neglect is not the same as murder, and that a lifetime of guilt is a huge cross to bear if neglect is ‘all’ they are guilty of.

I don’t think they did kill her, but I do think that there are questions to be asked about the timeline and the truth about the supposed checks on the various children of the group in the bar.

Obviously there would be reputation damage (at minimum) for all of the people in their group if they were found guilty of neglect leading to death of a small child, so there was a definite incentive to cover their tracks. Staff at the various bars have said that regular checks were not made.

The fund set up for MM and other missing children has not, as far as I know, paid out a penny to anyone else.

I don’t claim to know what happened (how could I?) and am not interested in persecuting anyone, but I do think that there should be a proper investigation that is not centred on the assumption that Madeleine was abducted. If a body is ever found I think that might happen, but I suspect that that no body will be found.

There is a lot of interest in the case - partly because of the huge sums of money and the amount of high-powered support for the case, and partly because the parents’ account of what happened just doesn’t add up. The Portuguese policeman initially in charge of the case was removed when he suggested that the parents may have sedated the children which led to Madeleine’s death. Trained dogs found both cadaverine (basically the scent of death) and blood traces in the apartment and in a car the McCanns hired long after Madeleine was declared missing. The window of the apartment was closed, not jemmied open as KM claimed - there was no evidence of a break-in at all. The parents refused to allow blood samples to be taken from the twins to check whether the children had been sedated by the abductor until months afterwards when many substances would have left no traces - why?

I don’t know- it was all a long time ago now, but one way or another that little girl lost her life, and I believe she has a right to justice. If the parents are guilty of nothing beyond neglect they would, presumably, be pleased to be exonerated- so why do they use the fund to prosecute anyone who suggests they might have been involved? In their shoes I think I would be delighted to give as much information as I could in the hope that my daughter’s abductor could be found.

Absolutely 100%
If anyone of a lesser class had left their children, they would have been charged with negligence I bet. Not saying they had any involvement, btw.

From ABC news, 2008:

“In mid-April this year, as the McCanns campaigned for a European Amber Alert system, sealed statements the couple made to Portuguese police about Madeleine's cries the night before became public.

According to the leaked statements, on the morning of their last day together, Madeleine asked her mother, "Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"

"It was sort of fairly early in the morning, she just very casually really said, 'Where were you last night when me and Sean cried?' and we immediately looked and said, 'When was this Madeleine, was this when you were going to sleep?'" said Kate McCann.

"We obviously told the police because we thought, does this indicate that someone has been round the night before and that's what has woken her up?" she said. "Which is significant you know … I've persecuted myself over and over again about that statement because you think, why didn't they [the police] kind of just hold it and say, 'What do you mean?'"

Madeleine didn't answer her parents' question and "carried on playing, whatever she was doing, totally undistressed," Kate McCann said.

The McCanns say that because Madeleine didn't make a big deal about the issue that they let the matter go. But they say they consciously decided that evening to be more vigilant about checking in on the children”

… yet they still went out leaving the children alone!

Anniebach

On Netflix ? As was The Crown , lies which I know of

The Crown is a historical drama and never pretended to be factual. There have been several documentaries about the McCann case, not only on Netflix but also on ITV, Channel 4 etc.

On Netflix ? As was The Crown , lies which I know of