Israel attack on Iran

And meanwhile, in Gaza, how many aid lorries got through today?

I should make plain I am no fan of Netanyahu but, looking at the history even in my lifetime, the views of the people who live in that area of the Middle East will be quite different from those of us watching on television, seeing media reports, viewing from from the sidelines.
Reason seems to be an alien concept to many.

No, sorry AGAA4

AGAA4

Interesting that Trump said this morning that he would "let them fight it out" if there was no deal. He is probably annoyed that Israel went ahead without US approval.

There are all sorts of rumours flying around about what Trump did or didn’t know, but looking at the lead up to Israel’s bombing, I think it is a safe bet that Trump didn’t know.

Trump was well on the way to achieving an agreement with Iran, which would have at least have given the IAEA continued control. Israel’s actions have now achieved Iran’s withdrawal from the IAEA, and I suspect ensures that Iran will develop nuclear capability as quickly as possible, given that so much of its military capability has been degraded over recent months.

Post was for Allira

Also, does that quote imply that he has 'done his best'.

Quote Allira Mon 16-Jun-25 12:12:15
Sincere apologies. I cannot find the article from 1987

I'd have been surprised if he'd made a video like that when he was Ambassador to the UN.
However, we cannot be sure of anything now, whether it's true or AI.
His brother was killed in the rescue of the Entebbe hostages, who had been taken by PLO guerrillas. Perhaps that could colour his views.

👏👏👏 agree Allira , with all the criticism of Netanyahu
since 2023 it would have been posted again and again and again

Wow, this thread is rattling along, but back to page 9, Claremont, that is one impressive info-post.
Allira, that seems to be his default quote. Didn't he say the same about Ukraine?

Interesting that Trump said this morning that he would "let them fight it out" if there was no deal. He is probably annoyed that Israel went ahead without US approval.

Oreo

Honestly Whitewavemark2 I don’t consider your naive views on Iran worth my time commenting on.If you really want to find knowledge of the subject then find it, it isn’t beyond you.
If it’s one upmanship or trying to score points then I don’t go in for that.
Israel will now feel safer for setting back any nuclear progress in Iran and actually so should many other countries too, they will be secretly celebrating.

But you see you can’t find definitive information - all you posts are supposition and opinion.

That is fine as long as you recognise that.

Your irritation and unpleasantness speaks volumes.

Sincere apologies. I cannot find the article from 1987

I'd have been surprised if he'd made a video like that when he was Ambassador to the UN.
However, we cannot be sure of anything now, whether it's true or AI.
His brother was killed in the rescue of the Entebbe hostages, who had been taken by PLO guerrillas. Perhaps that could colour his views.

Claremont

Allira

Claremont

He has been planning massive attacks on Gaza for even longer, 1987.

How do you know this?

He was Israeli Ambassador to the UN at that time.

I posted a video some time ago, of him saying exactly that at the time. Clear as a bell (hell).

Sincere apologies. I cannot find the article from 1987- and the private leaked video of him calling for massive attack on Palestinians date from 2001.

www.tiktok.com/@trtworld/video/7288339747284454661

it is from tiktok- but this makes no difference at all. This is clearly Netanyahu - and what he says is also VERY clear. And so is the response, which makes it clear too that he needed something to happen that would allow him to pull the trigger. He had to wait for a while, but he tragically did get it in the end.

Oreo

Honestly Whitewavemark2 I don’t consider your naive views on Iran worth my time commenting on.If you really want to find knowledge of the subject then find it, it isn’t beyond you.
If it’s one upmanship or trying to score points then I don’t go in for that.
Israel will now feel safer for setting back any nuclear progress in Iran and actually so should many other countries too, they will be secretly celebrating.

How rude and condescending in the extreme.

Just as this comment is cynical and scary in the extreme

'People did realise the horrors of nuclear proliferation but then as now, all countries wanted it because it was there.
Just as the gun revolutionised weapons, and the tank and air warfare, now incredibly powerful missiles and drones, time doesn’t stand still and the genie won’t be put back in the bottle.'

Of course it can't be put back in the bottle- that is my whole point! The whole point about proliferation. And the whole point that some countries are deemed by the 'West' that they are worthy and trusted, and others not. And that time passes, and things change, and those deemed worthy and safe, suddenly no longer are. The whole point indeed.

Honestly Whitewavemark2 I don’t consider your naive views on Iran worth my time commenting on.If you really want to find knowledge of the subject then find it, it isn’t beyond you.
If it’s one upmanship or trying to score points then I don’t go in for that.
Israel will now feel safer for setting back any nuclear progress in Iran and actually so should many other countries too, they will be secretly celebrating.

so - far

The big worry for most reasonable countries is that Iran sponsors terrorism and religious fundamentalism across the world and it’s highly undesirable for them to give nuclear bombs to terrorists.

The nations that do have nuclear weapons have been responsible - so, notwhistanding Russias threats.

Oreo

Mossad and Iranian dissidents have been working together for a long time.Intelligence is gathered about many subjects including Iran’s scientists working on nuclear programs.Read up on this issue and don’t go down the rabbit hole of thinking that Iran is some harmless stable country.

That is both opinion and guesswork.

You haven’t answered either question.

Oreo

Citing CND demos and taking a trip down memory lane as regards Greenham Common doesn’t help with making the world nuclear free nor would it ever have done.People did realise the horrors of nuclear proliferation but then as now, all countries wanted it because it was there.
Just as the gun revolutionised weapons, and the tank and air warfare, now incredibly powerful missiles and drones, time doesn’t stand still and the genie won’t be put back in the bottle.

Aw, don't deprive us of our trips down memory lane, its a nice enjoyable kind of sharing )

Mossad and Iranian dissidents have been working together for a long time.Intelligence is gathered about many subjects including Iran’s scientists working on nuclear programs.Read up on this issue and don’t go down the rabbit hole of thinking that Iran is some harmless stable country.

Oreo

You could say anything about anything.
Iran has been quietly going about the business of becoming a nuclear State for a while which is why the top scientists have just been eliminated.

Your last sentence was based on what objective evidence?

And Israel - what is your subjective opinion about their nuclear capability?

You could say anything about anything.
Iran has been quietly going about the business of becoming a nuclear State for a while which is why the top scientists have just been eliminated.

Re reasonable

Or you could say that those who have not joined full disclosure in the non-proliferation agreement are unreasonable.

Or you could say that anyone disagreeing with liberal democracy unreasonable.

Or you could say it is much better to base our decisions on objective risk rather than subjective opinion.

If you use objectivity, you would be aware that Iran (whatever your opinion of the regime ) has been objectively very little risk as far as nuclear weapons are concerned, and only recently has the DNSR indicated concern, but we don’t know why.

Citing CND demos and taking a trip down memory lane as regards Greenham Common doesn’t help with making the world nuclear free nor would it ever have done.People did realise the horrors of nuclear proliferation but then as now, all countries wanted it because it was there.
Just as the gun revolutionised weapons, and the tank and air warfare, now incredibly powerful missiles and drones, time doesn’t stand still and the genie won’t be put back in the bottle.

I’m not a religious fanatic MaizieD so can’t get into their mindset but the Iranians who hate the regime, with good cause I may add would undoubtedly not want those leaders to have full nuclear arsenal at their disposal.
Nuclear weapons are here to stay and the most we can hope is that the deterrent factor proves strong enough and countries with crazy regimes don’t get them.That isn’t always possible but it’s desirable.

MaizieD

^I’m all for reasonable countries having nuclear weapons and becoming a nuclear State but those reasonable countries have to make damn sure that unreasonable countries don’t have them.^

Oh dear. 'Reasonable countries'? How very paternalistic...

I'm finding it quite hard to name any nuclear capable 'reasonable countries' at the moment.

And, of course, 'reasonable' is a very subjective term...

Indeed - which is why any of us tried so hard to make people understand the massive danger of proliferation in the 60s, 70s and 80s- and tried very hard to stop the siting of US nuclear weapons on UK soil. I was a Member of East of England CND for all those years, marched, cycled to Molesworth and visite Greenham several times. And this is one time when I truly do not want to say 'told you so- proliferation was and is the most dangerous issue of our times'.

And yes, 'reasonable' is a very subjective term. Those we thought were stable countries with stable people at the helm, are now no longer. USA first and foremost has become a VERY unstable and dangerous place.