Is Sir Keir In The Last Chance Saloon?

Oh😄😄😄😄 as you were with my question!!

ronib

I don’t think there are many women at the top of the Civil Service hierarchy even in this day and age. Still a case of front men. There are of course a good number in senior management. Mamie

There are not enough women Perm Secs, but 48% of Senior Civil Servants are women. Where are you getting your data from?
Plus, you have obviously not met my daughter and her colleagues. 😮

There has never been a female Cabinet Secretary…. Ever Mamie

Mamie

ronib

I don’t think there are many women at the top of the Civil Service hierarchy even in this day and age. Still a case of front men. There are of course a good number in senior management. Mamie

There are not enough women Perm Secs, but 48% of Senior Civil Servants are women. Where are you getting your data from?
Plus, you have obviously not met my daughter and her colleagues. 😮

Nearly half of all Permanent Secretaries are women.

ronib hasn't met my daughter either!

ronib

There has never been a female Cabinet Secretary…. Ever Mamie

The Cabinet Secretary isn't the only senior civil servant.

ronib

There has never been a female Cabinet Secretary…. Ever Mamie

There have been Deputy Cabinet Secretaries, but agree that it a shame that those names suggested last time were not appointed or chose not to apply. But that is one job. I thought we were talking statistics? You said you didn't think there were many women in the top hierarchies. I think the statistics disprove that.

ronib

There has never been a female Cabinet Secretary…. Ever Mamie

Which is not a big deal given there have only ever been 14 cabinet secretaries, since the post was created over 100 years ago. No doubt there will be one.

Just to clarify my point, growstuff, about us not having control over the Civil Service, so,
we 'have control' over Government because we may vote them in or out, but we don't vote for who is in the Civil Service, and so, in that way, we don't 'have control' over them.

Apparently in his manifesto he mentioned sorting out the “chaos” nearly 40 times!

Not going too well is it Keir?

I don’t think incompetence is the issue, it’s trying to solve problems from the top rather than the grass roots.

The reason for all the unemployed 18-24 yr olds and the huge increase is children with SEND is failure to invest in schools and education. Ditto early years. Ditto post-16 training.
Put that right over 5-10 years and much will improve.continue making things more difficult for the unfortunate and the more unfortunate people there will be.

Tony Blair was right about that.

How well does it have to go? Changes are being made slowly but surely.
On a previous thread someone posted the improvements to date. Not headline grabbing upheavals, just getting the job done.

Maremia

Just to clarify my point, growstuff, about us not having control over the Civil Service, so,
we 'have control' over Government because we may vote them in or out, but we don't vote for who is in the Civil Service, and so, in that way, we don't 'have control' over them.

Not sure how you could vote for 550,000 civil servants?
In France there are 5.6 million by the way (19% of the population)..

Maremia

Not sure how anyone's policies will ever solve the urge for folk to leave war torn countries and seek safety elsewhere. Maybe a vast improvement in geopolitics?

But people are expected to seek refuge in the nearest safe country.

We are not the nearest safe country.

Maremia

Just to clarify my point, growstuff, about us not having control over the Civil Service, so,
we 'have control' over Government because we may vote them in or out, but we don't vote for who is in the Civil Service, and so, in that way, we don't 'have control' over them.

I agree that the population does not vote directly for civil servants. Nevertheless, the civil service does not operate independently. All branches are accountable to a government minister.

M0nica

Maremia

Not sure how anyone's policies will ever solve the urge for folk to leave war torn countries and seek safety elsewhere. Maybe a vast improvement in geopolitics?

But people are expected to seek refuge in the nearest safe country.

We are not the nearest safe country.

Where is it written that people should seek refuge in the nearest safe country?

Radical thought here. Since going abroad takes up so much time for prime ministers, not just Starmer, perhaps we should have two. One to sort home affairs and the other foreign affairs. That way we might, possibly, see improvements without any excuses of foreign affairs being so important, more important than running and improving this country that elected them regardless of party.

ronib

The government is only as good as its back office …. Front men for the Civil Service?

But ministers should be in control of their back offices, making sure they have the people for the job. This current government is run by its back office - A sign of weak and ineffectual ministers and a weak and ineffectual government.

If 'immigration' is one of your causes for concern, have a look at the statistics for how many refugees are taken in by other countries and rest assured that our 'share' is much lower than most.
If your concern is about people of other nations being recruited to come here and work, which is the much, much, larger amount of 'immigration' I do recall that this was Tory policy when, was it Liz Truss, made a trade deal with India.

Interesting point woodenspoon.

woodenspoon

Radical thought here. Since going abroad takes up so much time for prime ministers, not just Starmer, perhaps we should have two. One to sort home affairs and the other foreign affairs. That way we might, possibly, see improvements without any excuses of foreign affairs being so important, more important than running and improving this country that elected them regardless of party.

That is why you have a Home Secretary and a Foreign Secretary. I don't think you can have one person as the Head of Government. National and international affairs are far too intertwined for that.
Keir Starmer has been unlucky to have to deal with such a chaotic and a dangerous international situation so early in his premiership.
Do you really think domestic politics are more important than the threat of war?

...more than one person

GrannyGravy13

I think the PM and the majority of then Labour MPs have realised it is far more difficult to Govern than be in Opposition, despite having 14 years to prepare…

This in a nutshell!

Many of them are completely new to the job too.

As for Starmer - has he reached his level of incompetence? I'm not so sure, however, I think Rachel Reeves as Chancellor has, she is a disaster and his Achilles heel. If this is the fault of her advisers, then she needs to find a new team pdq.

growstuff

Maremia

Just to clarify my point, growstuff, about us not having control over the Civil Service, so,
we 'have control' over Government because we may vote them in or out, but we don't vote for who is in the Civil Service, and so, in that way, we don't 'have control' over them.

I agree that the population does not vote directly for civil servants. Nevertheless, the civil service does not operate independently. All branches are accountable to a government minister.

Civil servants are there to carry out the instructions of the G
Government of the day, whether or not they agree with their policies.

Allira that’s the theory if not the reality.

ronib

Allira that’s the theory if not the reality.

Have you worked in one of the departments?

I’m not convinced that you know how the civil service works tbh