Is Sir Keir In The Last Chance Saloon?

GrannyGravy13

I think the PM and the majority of then Labour MPs have realised it is far more difficult to Govern than be in Opposition, despite having 14 years to prepare…

I think that has happened before. This time, they were so convinced they could do better that it's come as a shock just how difficult it is to actually be in power.

All the same, who would you appoint instead?

The fact that there’s no great clamour to change PM is an indication that no one wants the job.
Those back benchers who feel they can manipulate the current PM into Uturns, are even less likely to want to take over and have that aimed at them.
I wouldn’t elect any of the other parties instead either at the moment, but it’s not reassuring that about 14 years of Labour left the UK desperate for change, then 14 years of Conservatives left the UK desperate for change.
Will we be desperate for change more quickly now or will the fact that there’s no viable replacement mean we’re more willing to hang on?

It is very difficult to make good changes for all when there is sooooooo much to sort through.
Interesting point you made ronib.
We don't have control over the Civil Service.

Not saying we should.

Mollygo

He’s not in the last chance saloon, because no one else wants the poisoned chalice at the moment.

Oh people always want the chalice, poisoned or not, but the Labour Party has different mechanisms for regime change to the Tories who favour the quick Julius Caesar stabs in the back routine.
So not the last chance, yet for Starmer but he needs to do much much better.

ronib

The government is only as good as its back office …. Front men for the Civil Service?

Why do you assume they are men Ronib?
Almost 50% of senior civil servants are women.

Maremia

It is very difficult to make good changes for all when there is sooooooo much to sort through.
Interesting point you made ronib.
We don't have control over the Civil Service.

Errrmmm ... the civil service is most definitely accountable to the government.

Well, the supposed defeat for the government media storm turned into a damp squib didn't it?

I am sick of the anti-Starmer in the media jst now. I'm not a huge fan, I met him once and found him quite underwhelming but all the leaders with so called 'charisma' turned out to be deal losses at running governments.

Starmer is going nowhere just now and get used to it. Reform are fizzling out in practice now they have some power in the localities, even though they are popular in the polls still.

Governemt is a serious business, not a game, and I think Starmer at least realises this.

So no, far from Last Chance Saloon except in the world of media storms people seem to love so much...

I realise there were lots of errors there- I ought to draft my posts more carefully but I think you get the gist!

I don’t think there are many women at the top of the Civil Service hierarchy even in this day and age. Still a case of front men. There are of course a good number in senior management. Mamie

How anyone could seriously, or even jokingly, describe Angela Rayner as competent, is alarming.
Wes Streeting, yes. He has attempted to get to grips with the NHS since day one, works tirelessly and has leadership ambitions. But Rayner is only in Parliament, and more importantly in the post of Deputy Prime Minister purely because of the power of the unions. She is a perfect example of the Peter Principle being has been promoted way above her abilities ever since adoption as an MP. To think that a woman who would not be accepted for the most basic course at a sixth form college because of her abysmal lack of qualifications and education could even be considered as a possible Prime Minister shows the depths to which this country has sunk.

a perfect example of the Peter Principle, being has been promoted

keepingquiet

Well, the supposed defeat for the government media storm turned into a damp squib didn't it?

I am sick of the anti-Starmer in the media jst now. I'm not a huge fan, I met him once and found him quite underwhelming but all the leaders with so called 'charisma' turned out to be deal losses at running governments.

Starmer is going nowhere just now and get used to it. Reform are fizzling out in practice now they have some power in the localities, even though they are popular in the polls still.

Governemt is a serious business, not a game, and I think Starmer at least realises this.

So no, far from Last Chance Saloon except in the world of media storms people seem to love so much...

👏👏👏👏👏

Every single PM has rebellions😊. The OP is a bit of hyperbole tbh.

So

Blair suffered a welfare rebellion during his first year.

Cameron suffered the biggest post war rebellion in 2011, since the Second World War over leaving the EU.

May? Enough said

Johnson - likewise.

It is nothing new.

I do think however, that this year has been one of the most difficult years a British PM has had to face.

Foreign policy, has been none stop.

Domestic policy with an economy in bits inherited from the previous government.

Immigration is an issue that is both long term and frankly insolvable for as long as the world treats it as it does.

As for the Peter principle monica I offer you Johnson, May, Cameron, all of whom failed to get a grip of the office. In one case actually playing fast and loose with the constitution.

So no I disagree with the OP. The media will tarry with the idea for a very short while. Next week we will be discussing something entirely different.

However, I do think that Starmer and his government is not listening to their backbenchers, which is the reason he got into this mess. He will learn.

Also big governments always come with rebellions. Because they can.

growstuff

nanna8

He’ll hang on- no one viable to take his place. Maybe if he got rid of that treasurer woman things might improve ?

I assume you mean the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Is it relevant that she's a woman?

I couldn’t care less. Obviously you do, though. Fair enough. Actually the more females in positions of power the better as far as I’m concerned but if you follow the older view, perhaps you disagree ?

eazybee - is your proposal that public school boys ( Mr Johnson) , or Oxford graduates ( Ms Truss) are not the depths?
I am no apologia for Ms Rayner, but I find the intellectual snobbery levelled at her amusing. The schooling of a man or woman is only a part of who they become.

As for the Peter principle monica I offer you Johnson, May, Cameron, all of whom failed to get a grip of the office. In one case actually playing fast and loose with the constitution

Agreed WW but you’ve missed out the best example … Truss🥬🥬🥬

nanna8

growstuff

nanna8

He’ll hang on- no one viable to take his place. Maybe if he got rid of that treasurer woman things might improve ?

I assume you mean the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Is it relevant that she's a woman?

I couldn’t care less. Obviously you do, though. Fair enough. Actually the more females in positions of power the better as far as I’m concerned but if you follow the older view, perhaps you disagree ?

It doesn't concern me in the slightest, but I wondered why you made any reference to her gender when it's not relevant. It seemed like an insult.

ronib

I don’t think there are many women at the top of the Civil Service hierarchy even in this day and age. Still a case of front men. There are of course a good number in senior management. Mamie

Almost half of Permanent Secretaries are female:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_secretary_(UK)

LizzieDrip

^As for the Peter principle monica I offer you Johnson, May, Cameron, all of whom failed to get a grip of the office. In one case actually playing fast and loose with the constitution^

Agreed WW but you’ve missed out the best example … Truss🥬🥬🥬

Oh yes😄😄 she came and went so quickly you may not have noticed, although the end result if her incompetence is still being felt and one of the major issues Starmer has had to tackle.

Oh yes😄😄 she came and went so quickly you may not have noticed, although the end result if her incompetence is still being felt and one of the major issues Starmer has had to tackle

Yes, she’s the gift that is still giving - and that no Tory ever wants to mention (if you can find a Tory these days🤣)!

Hardly - he's got four more years. I doubt anyone will stand against him. I do despair of the whole political class - Starmer, Badenoch, Farage, etc. Where are the giants of yesteryear?

I don’t think we will see any revolving PM doors for the foreseeable. Apart from the fact that Labour don’t behave like that as a party, in the end the rebellion was small. I do think there might be a reshuffle in the autumn though.

growstuff it certainly wasn’t intended as an insult or anything connected with gender. Why would her gender be an issue? I think she is incompetent and nothing will change my mind about that. Plenty of incompetent people around, male, female or neutral.

I don’t want to discuss her anymore. End of .

nanna8

growstuff it certainly wasn’t intended as an insult or anything connected with gender. Why would her gender be an issue? I think she is incompetent and nothing will change my mind about that. Plenty of incompetent people around, male, female or neutral.

Why is she incompetent?