Is Sir Keir In The Last Chance Saloon?

Anniebach

You expect female leaders to be just like men , strong and resilient Calendergirl , I do not

Yes, I suppose I do.

I don’t expect Keir Starmer to dissolve into tears at the dispatch box when things get tough.

You can’t have it all ways, wrong as that may seem.

Calendargirl Thu 03-Jul-25 07:03:45
growstuff
But nobody would ever have called Thatcher anything other than strong and resilient.
Precisely.

The upset over her son was understandable, actually made her appear more of a mother and less of a PM, and the distress when she left office, also totally relevant.

Would have a strong and resident man have cried ?

It has just been reported on the news that a consequence of RR being seen crying on the Front Bench during PMQ’s yesterday has been an immediate drop in the £ and higher borrowing costs for the U.K.

Source ITV Breakfast News.

I have no idea why the Chancellor was upset at PMQs but I dislike the way the Leader of the Opposition highlighted it to the nation. The cause may or may not be a personal matter but I would have welcomed a little compassion from Mrs Badenoch.

There was a perceptive article about leaders crying, when Vaughn Gething resigned as First Minister last year. I remembered it because it is a rare event, which always seems to stick in our minds, whoever it is.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy66vnw0q74o

GrannyGravy13

It has just been reported on the news that a consequence of RR being seen crying on the Front Bench during PMQ’s yesterday has been an immediate drop in the £ and higher borrowing costs for the U.K.

Source ITV Breakfast News.

How does anybody know if that's a direct consequence?

GrannyGravy13

It has just been reported on the news that a consequence of RR being seen crying on the Front Bench during PMQ’s yesterday has been an immediate drop in the £ and higher borrowing costs for the U.K.

Source ITV Breakfast News.

It was bound to happen. I mentioned the optics in my post yesterday. The whole world will have seen her crying and put their own interpretation on it. She should not have been there.

Parsley3

I have no idea why the Chancellor was upset at PMQs but I dislike the way the Leader of the Opposition highlighted it to the nation. The cause may or may not be a personal matter but I would have welcomed a little compassion from Mrs Badenoch.

Some hope!

At least Mel Stride expressed some sympathy and apparently sent her a message hoping she's OK.

I wonder how long it will be before he's campaigning to be party leader.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

It has just been reported on the news that a consequence of RR being seen crying on the Front Bench during PMQ’s yesterday has been an immediate drop in the £ and higher borrowing costs for the U.K.

Source ITV Breakfast News.

How does anybody know if that's a direct consequence?

It’s all in the optics along with the PM not confirming RR will remain in the job when asked at PMQ’s, he actually ignored the question.

Things like this make the markets jittery.

growstuff

Parsley3

I have no idea why the Chancellor was upset at PMQs but I dislike the way the Leader of the Opposition highlighted it to the nation. The cause may or may not be a personal matter but I would have welcomed a little compassion from Mrs Badenoch.

Some hope!

At least Mel Stride expressed some sympathy and apparently sent her a message hoping she's OK.

I wonder how long it will be before he's campaigning to be party leader.

It shows that Mel Stride has some empathy, and we should applaud him for that I think. Whatever the reason for their distress, no politician should be targeted specifically because they are clearly upset, so I feel annoyed at Kemi Badenough’s approach, which I think people will also remember.

Oh OK! So it was probably more to do with the idea that she might be sacked rather than her crying - that makes sense.

growstuff

Oh OK! So it was probably more to do with the idea that she might be sacked rather than her crying - that makes sense.

Definitely a combination of the two.

I do applaud him for it Casdon. He's Shadow Chancellor, so he must know that he probably couldn't do a better job with the country's finances. I don't know what kind of state the Conservative party machine is in these days, but I can't help thinking they could have done the same thing, but managed it better. I guess everybody expects the Conservatives to be "nasty", so they could have got away with it.

Personally, I think the country has ended up with a ridiculous system. People with current PIP entitlement will keep it, but new claimants will be assessed more harshly. Given that the whole thing has blown up in the government's face anyway, it might have been better to delay everything until a proper review had been done.

Indeed I don't think I actually care if a politician cries, male or female, but I do care about the lack of strategy/vision on this issue.

I agree growstuff, delay and review might have been the least worst option.
The info growstuff gave on the man given an allowance by his parents alongside PIP is one I’m familiar with. I know three women now in their forties who have PIP etc because of mental health problems. They claim to need carers to get them out of bed, to make meals etc because depression/anxiety would mean they couldn’t function without carers. One has a relative as her carer. The relative is also on benefits because of alcoholism.
I’ll stop here but could write the book.
Yes of course Pip must be available to those in genuine need. The assessment process is arduous for most but cheats learn how to cheat and need stopping

Iam64

I agree growstuff, delay and review might have been the least worst option.
The info growstuff gave on the man given an allowance by his parents alongside PIP is one I’m familiar with. I know three women now in their forties who have PIP etc because of mental health problems. They claim to need carers to get them out of bed, to make meals etc because depression/anxiety would mean they couldn’t function without carers. One has a relative as her carer. The relative is also on benefits because of alcoholism.
I’ll stop here but could write the book.
Yes of course Pip must be available to those in genuine need. The assessment process is arduous for most but cheats learn how to cheat and need stopping

It's beyond me how people can fiddle the system and live with themselves.

We have always fallen into the bracket where we earn enough and never, ever qualify for a penny.
Plodding on for years, still working now.

Personally, I think the country has ended up with a ridiculous system. People with current PIP entitlement will keep it, but new claimants will be assessed more harshly. Given that the whole thing has blown up in the government's face anyway, it might have been better to delay everything until a proper review had been done.

I thought that was the part that had been withdrawn from the Bill, or postponed until after consultations with disabled groups? So, a semi delay..

It was enough to persuade a number of the ‘rebels’ to vote for it.

And it isn’t law yet.

I'm not up to speed with RR's crying episode, but just to say, news abroad isn't exactly dwelling on it. (The same was true here for Macron's slap from his wife). I dislike the way our country publically dissects politicians' every move and bits of body language. I hope RR is OK.
Why didn't Starmer just say tell Badenoch at the time that RR's miserable face WAS due to a personal matter, so back off?
The Martin Lewis quote was spot on.

Thanks MaxieD, your understanding of economics is something I value, as is the ability to follow the news clearly

MaizieD

^Personally, I think the country has ended up with a ridiculous system. People with current PIP entitlement will keep it, but new claimants will be assessed more harshly. Given that the whole thing has blown up in the government's face anyway, it might have been better to delay everything until a proper review had been done.^

I thought that was the part that had been withdrawn from the Bill, or postponed until after consultations with disabled groups? So, a semi delay..

It was enough to persuade a number of the ‘rebels’ to vote for it.

And it isn’t law yet.

Maybe I've got that wrong. I thought that was the part which had replaced the original bill, so it will only be new claimants who are affected.

Is it a relatively new provision to have carers helping with mental health care? I don’t remember care support three times a day for elderly people with mental illness. The aim seems to be to keep patients out of hospital which is of course an improvement. The problem can be that it’s still a long day for people at home with no planned activities and cooking, cleaning and gardening done by others.

lafergar The person I know has been doing it for so long that I think it's just normal to him. He does have some behavioural issues, but nobody has ever tried to address them. He's seen counsellors but gets aggressive and nobody has the courage to take hi on. Everybody just shrugs and makes excuses. He's lucky that he has parents who can afford to support him, but it makes me cross that he receives PIP as well because I know other people who have much more serious problems who have been turned down.

Anyway, as I said, it's anecdotal.

Badenoch drawing attention to Reeves distress says so much about Badenoch doesn’t it. None of it positive. On the clips I’ve seen, Starmer was right to ignore Badenoch’s digs at Reeves. He was between the rock and hard place in ignoring Badenough demanding he confirm, yet again, that Reeves will remain in post

I don’t want female politicians to behave like men. Their presence in increasing numbers has influenced policy for the better

I have zero sympathy for Reeves. My sympathy is for all the people she has shafted! Dreadful horrid woman! She has to go along with the whole of Labour!

Badenough has shown herself for what she really is … a nasty bully.