Is the U.K. really broken, or does it just need tinkering?

I doubt significant economic growth can be achieved by the UK and, given the national debt burden ( on which interest can rise quite fast), I also doubt the UK can pay for all the public services people expect without additional borrowing (which would be very unwise) so taxation will have to go up. Given the amounts required that suggests VAT and/or income tax regardless of the Labour manifest ('Events, dear boy, events..,'). Wealth taxes might bring in some money but they have not been a great success in other countries. The problem of all taxation is it works against growth.

Aveline

I suspect that each MP is thinking of their own profile in their individual constituencies rather than the economy or the country as a whole.

No1 priority of any polititian is self interest, getting elected next time, some even change party to do it.

I suspect that each MP is thinking of their own profile in their individual constituencies rather than the economy or the country as a whole.

Aveline

Everybody is always happy when other people's money is used to fund services.

So why isn't everybody supporting the latest bill? Why did all the parties (except most Labour politicians) vote against it?

This is what Badenoch said about the disabled:

“The world owes no one a living. Millions of people cannot just sit on welfare and expect to be paid to do so. And if they don’t like it, that’s their problem, not the state’s.”

You would have thought Conservatives would jump at the chance to reduce welfare payments.

Everybody is always happy when other people's money is used to fund services.

Aveline

This rang a bell

You could easily say “who wants change”

Then “who wants to change “

With exactly the same result

Aveline😂

This rang a bell

Why are we worrying about a few trifles £20 billion is only 0.06% of the economy, just increase tax a bit.

The real issue is that in a year of government Starmer has achieved none of his aims, baulked at every point by left wingers including his own MPs.
How much more credibility is he going to loose, I liked his policies but every one he has backed down on

its small beer in an economy of £1300 billion.

Are you having me on, David or being sarcastic?

A while ago you were saying that £3billion spent on asylum seekers was a seriously big deal...

MaizieD

^I also agree with you that many ££££££ were wasted by the previous govt., and not just on Covid!^

I don't think that the people who ended up in receipt of those ££££££ thought they were wasted. (I'm thinking of all that useless, expensive PPE, consultancy fees and setting up completely new agencies instead of developing the ones we had. ) New yachts and expensive houses for the government's favoured mates and businesses... Waste? What waste?

This is thing about government pending, some of it always ends up in someone's pocket...

If we include HS2, Brexit and Covid at least £ 200 billion has been wasted by successive Tory governments, spread over 10 yrs, its small beer in an economy of £1300 billion.

I also agree with you that many ££££££ were wasted by the previous govt., and not just on Covid!

I don't think that the people who ended up in receipt of those ££££££ thought they were wasted. (I'm thinking of all that useless, expensive PPE, consultancy fees and setting up completely new agencies instead of developing the ones we had. ) New yachts and expensive houses for the government's favoured mates and businesses... Waste? What waste?

This is thing about government pending, some of it always ends up in someone's pocket...

Maremia

Are some folk advocating the 'trickle down effect'?
I know a good joke about that, but 99 per cent of you wouldn't get it.

Try us, I expect we have our Tenas on😂

Galaxy

We sometimes forget what a small miracle it is to live in a society where the refuse is collected, the electricity works, etc.

Yes, some of us certainly do! I truly believe that the majority of us live reasonable life, however that’s not good enough, everyone should be able to do this, irrespective of their circumstances.

Lathyrus3

Id like some really radical changes in public ownership of essentials like water and energy. A commitment to public transport and social housing even if it means higher taxes.
And a couple of other things but that would do for a start.😬

👏👏👏👏👏👏

We sometimes forget what a small miracle it is to live in a society where the refuse is collected, the electricity works, etc.

btw, I have and still do swim in our seas and lakes and have never suffered any ill effects, ditto my husband and children and friends. However I do think the govt should hold the water companies to account and I firmly believe water and energy should never have been privatised and I also agree with you that many ££££££ were wasted by the previous govt., and not just on Covid!

Shinamae

growstuff

Shinamae

What successive governments have done to this once great country is truly appalling and I just despair….😭

What's been so appalling and why do you despair?

I still think the UK is a pretty good place to live and I'm very grateful I was born here.

I don’t feel I have to justify my opinion to you, but the fiasco of the Covid and how it was dealt with by the government, Millions wasted..
The uncontrolled people coming into this country who we know nothing about and just infiltrating into our society this worries me greatly, State of the water in this country all our beaches and rivers being polluted by fat cats who run the water companies I could go on Call me what you want. I really do not value for your opinion….

Just interested in why you wrote what you did. I totally disagree with you.

I don't have to justify myself to you either, but I'll just say that the country is by no means perfect, but most things still work. I have water coming out of my taps and power comes out of my sockets. We still have buses and trains and the roads (despite potholes) are still passable. The health service has saved my life a couple of times over the last decade. Most people (at least the ones I choose to be with) are still tolerant and I have come across many examples of genuine kindness. It really is quite a nice place, in my opinion. It's a shame some people choose to be rude, but that's probably human nature.

PS. I don't value your opinion much either.

Shinamae On a public forum if anyone makes a really damning or strong remark, it’s perfectly acceptable for other to question that.

Growstuff was perfectly respectful in her post, you less so in your reply.

I was not born in this country, but in Singapore, though I am British and have been since birth, we returned here when I was 3 years old, I am well travelled and very well aware that although changes are required we are extremely fortunate to call this country our home.

LizzieDrip

Yes, Faridge et al constantly promise the moon on a stick with bells on … yet they never say how they would actually do this. Just ‘everything is broken’ and ‘we’re the only ones clever enough to fix it’ 🙈

That’s the biggest issue I have with Reform!

No, I don’t believe this country is broken, but I do believe some of our citizens are, we do need change and strong, positive, genuine leadership.

Do we have that with Starmer and crew? I simply don’t know.

But I do know that blaming certain cohorts of people, outside of our govt., isn’t in any way helpful.

growstuff

Shinamae

What successive governments have done to this once great country is truly appalling and I just despair….😭

What's been so appalling and why do you despair?

I still think the UK is a pretty good place to live and I'm very grateful I was born here.

I don’t feel I have to justify my opinion to you, but the fiasco of the Covid and how it was dealt with by the government, Millions wasted..
The uncontrolled people coming into this country who we know nothing about and just infiltrating into our society this worries me greatly, State of the water in this country all our beaches and rivers being polluted by fat cats who run the water companies I could go on Call me what you want. I really do not value for your opinion….

growstuff

Shinamae

What successive governments have done to this once great country is truly appalling and I just despair….😭

What's been so appalling and why do you despair?

I still think the UK is a pretty good place to live and I'm very grateful I was born here.

There has been a massive lack of investment in growth for 10 yrs plus, at least Starmer has some ambition to expand the economy, if Labour MPs continu3 to be belligerent he won’t achieve it.

I know a good joke about that, but 99 per cent of you wouldn't get it. ..... very good!!

It would be interesting to see an economic model where there was no business activity paying wages and paying taxes. Or are you thinking the state would provide everything, it sounds like communism to me.

Even China accepts private enterprise is good ( as long as it tows the party line ) and subsidizes it extensively.

Maremia

Are some folk advocating the 'trickle down effect'?
I know a good joke about that, but 99 per cent of you wouldn't get it.

Haha!