Falling birth rate

growstuff

David49

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

It does if they are actually working, not sitting in hotels costing money.

The vast majority of immigrants are not siting in hotels costing money.

Where are they then?

growstuff

Kandinsky

But a demand for fewer school places costs the country less

I’m pretty sure someone from the Labour Party was encouraging people to have more children - might have been dreaming of course.

Very few people will be needed in the future as most jobs will be done by robots / AI.
So let’s just let the human race die out naturally - seems to be what some people want.

That's a bit dramatic! The human race won't be dying out any time soon - unless a massive asteroid lands on the planet.

We do need someone to give birth to the scientist who will stop that happening 😁

Unless they have already!

growstuff

Incidentally, I was born in the mid 50s and I don't remember many families with more than two or three children.

I was born in the 1940s, one of three children but most of my friends had one sibling or none.

Many young women now choose to be child-free.

Those that are are costing £8m a day, small change?
Only £3 billion a year , a small trifle.

With respect,*David*, for someone who venerates business your thinking on the national economy is remarkably restricted. £3billion is small change in the context of over all national budget spending; which is estimated to be about £1,300billion in 2025

Give them work permits and a hostel to live in until they are processed.

I expect they would much rather do that than have to sit around doing nothing all day in usually substandard accommodation and with a very small daily allowance.

I can just see the uproar there would be as well, with accusations of potential terrorists and child groomers being let loose on the UK population. Not to mention cries of 'taking our jobs'... Reform would have a field day.

growstuff

LOUISA1523

Yes, definitely a cause for concern

Why?

The world is running out of resources. Isn't it a good thing that there might be fewer of us?

I'd have thought it was a cause for celebration!

I hope more resources become available to enable women in poorer countries to be able to make the choice about how many children they want to bring into the world, too.

growstuff

David49

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

It does if they are actually working, not sitting in hotels costing money.

The vast majority of immigrants are not siting in hotels costing money.

Those that are are costing £8m a day, small change?
Only £3 billion a year , a small trifle.
Give them work permits and a hostel to live in until they are processed.

Witzend It's quite normal for the need for school places to fluctuate at local level. A housing estate gets built, people have children, the children grow up, but the parents stay (without children), their children then go and live somewhere else and there's a need for school places in some other part of the town (or part of the country). Councils plan about 10 years in advance.

My maternal GGM was one of 10, she herself had 6, but one died as a baby. One of hers (my DM) had 4, 2 others had 2 each.
OTOH my paternal GM had just one - from all I gather a very difficult birth was enough to put her off having any more!

My dd1 has 3 (3rd was a ‘surprise’), dd2 won’t be having any, out of choice.

Interestingly, for reasons of space, the reception class at the Gdcs’ primary used to be housed in their pre-school, a 15 minute walk away. But falling numbers have meant that there was room in the main building for reception, when the youngest Gdc started last year.

Not sure why numbers have fallen - unless it’s crazy property prices driving people away! A nice area of outer Oxford but by no means anything like the most expensive.

Grammaretto

I don't think offering women incentives to have more children, as is happening in France and Hungary is a good thing and it doesn't appear to be working anyway.

The population is already huge. It may be unbalanced with too many of us oldies but I'm sure there'll be a pill I can take......

There doesn't need to be a pill, but there needs to be a rethink about funding pensions.

Even pensioners spend their money - it's the spending which is needed to keep the economy going.

I don't think offering women incentives to have more children, as is happening in France and Hungary is a good thing and it doesn't appear to be working anyway.

The population is already huge. It may be unbalanced with too many of us oldies but I'm sure there'll be a pill I can take......

Jane43

It is a cause for concern as long as the arrangements for state pension remain, it is something that has to change but no party will take it on because they know it will be political suicide.

Thanks for a relevant comment.

Yes, arrangements for the state pension will have to change. Having said that, younger people are now paying far more for NI than any of us ever did and I think they're more knowledgeable about saving for pensions too.

Why has this thread degenerated into a rant about irregular immigration, which represents only a small percentage of total immigration?

Do people think that a declining birthrate is necessarily a bad thing? (That was the OP.)

Grammaretto

Growstuff I do resent the green fields being saturated with new housing, partly because it's the wrong type of housing.
It's mainly very expensive detached houses with 3 or 4 bedrooms and double garages nowhere near the town centre, schools or services. No public transport. Our town centre is a barren wasteland most of the time with steel shutters on the shops and just takeaways and pubs open in the evenings. The agents' blurb for the new builds advertises the ease of getting to the airport, motorway and out of town shopping.

I have some sympathy for that view. I like open fields too and I've noticed that new developments often don't have any infrastructure - not even a corner shop.

That's one of the reasons I don't think an increasing population is necessarily a good thing.

PS. I have quite strong views about declining town centres, but that's probably for another thread.

It's not just here, all over the developed world, traditional catholic countries where women once would have had lots of children have decided for a number of reasons not to follow the route previous generations of women took. Umpteen factors, women now have the freedom to control how many children they have, often opting for one or two or possibly none, sometimes a fulfilling career will be more important to her than starting a family, possibly the restraints brought with having children no longer appeals. There are of course umpteen financial factors. Young people throughout Europe are finding it harder to set up independently and have their own home, often two incomes are vital to the household. Maybe the window of opportunity to plan a family doesn't present itself, possibly women leave it too late. Finally, couples may well look at the state of the world and think to themselves "why would I want to bring a child into this mess, we'll get a dog instead."

Whitewavemark2

woodenspoon

growstuff

David49

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

It does if they are actually working, not sitting in hotels costing money.

The vast majority of immigrants are not siting in hotels costing money.

None of them should be sitting in hotels costing money. Three months grace to get acclimatised then out to work you go and fund your own accommodation. That’s how it should be. No NHS either.

Do you know what their legal status is?

Regardless of their legal status, many are working as delivery drivers. There is even a Uber Eats being run out of an asylum hotel. I have no objection to them working, I do object to them being funded by tax payers ad infinitum. If you don’t, perhaps you should offer to house a few.

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

If they work for the black market as loads do, they spend little and don’t pay any taxes.

Whitewavemark2

David49

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

It does if they are actually working, not sitting in hotels costing money.

Oh dear! Tell me what is the status of those apparently sitting in hotels?

And what is their work entitlement?

According to BBC (and other sources) undocumented migrants in the U.K. work as food delivery riders for Uber Eats by informally renting accounts from other couriers as a substitute rider.

Nice little earner…

Growstuff I do resent the green fields being saturated with new housing, partly because it's the wrong type of housing.
It's mainly very expensive detached houses with 3 or 4 bedrooms and double garages nowhere near the town centre, schools or services. No public transport. Our town centre is a barren wasteland most of the time with steel shutters on the shops and just takeaways and pubs open in the evenings. The agents' blurb for the new builds advertises the ease of getting to the airport, motorway and out of town shopping.

Good grief.

After years and years of discussion of immigration, asylum seekers and refugees.

People are still clueless as to the law.

Don’t people read?😡

woodenspoon

growstuff

David49

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

It does if they are actually working, not sitting in hotels costing money.

The vast majority of immigrants are not siting in hotels costing money.

None of them should be sitting in hotels costing money. Three months grace to get acclimatised then out to work you go and fund your own accommodation. That’s how it should be. No NHS either.

Do you know what their legal status is?

Yep now they can sell photos of their feet on only fans, whoop whoop.

David49

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

It does if they are actually working, not sitting in hotels costing money.

Oh dear! Tell me what is the status of those apparently sitting in hotels?

And what is their work entitlement?

I'm 60 and when I was 6 I chose never to have any kids, partly because I don't like them, and I've also chose never to marry as men are not my favourite creatures either. I also chose never to have a partner, no matter what their gender. .

There's also a drop in marriages in the UK. In 1972 there were over 480,00 which dropped to around 250,000 in 2019!

For centuries women were forced to be unpaid skivvies/subservient little housewives and mothers, a lot used as punch bags and r*p*d by husbands, or forced into being nuns when they were barely out of nappies, we weren't allowed to have our own brains or jobs or anything.

It's brilliant that we can now stand up for ourselves and our sisterhood all over the world!

It is a cause for concern as long as the arrangements for state pension remain, it is something that has to change but no party will take it on because they know it will be political suicide.

growstuff

David49

Whitewavemark2

Blimey the message - immigrants seems to be getting through.

High immigration levels generally means economic growth.

It does if they are actually working, not sitting in hotels costing money.

The vast majority of immigrants are not siting in hotels costing money.

None of them should be sitting in hotels costing money. Three months grace to get acclimatised then out to work you go and fund your own accommodation. That’s how it should be. No NHS either.