NHS local community hubs

The problem is that you have to go there now for things GPs used to do.

In what way is that a problem Elusivebutterfly? Is it difficult to get to?

We have something like these hubs a few miles from me. It has a Minor Injuries Unit, GP practices, X-rays, blood tests and some other services. The problem is that you have to go there now for things GPs used to do.
Urgent GP appointments are rare so you have to go there if you don't want to wait a few days for a pharmacist to call or a few weeks to see a GP. You go there to take bloods. They have nurses so have to go there for wound dressings.
This means travelling several miles instead of being seen locally at a GP practice for most things. I think they need to improve GP services first.

Why do you think it is an artificial grouping ronib, I don’t understand what you mean? Is it artificial to provide services which can be provided locally, which the primary care team says is needed, locally? I think it is what patients want, rather than to trek off to a district general hospital if they can get the service near home. I’d be interested to hear what other people think.

What I have struggled to understand and still do is this artificial grouping of health care. Whether Wes Streeting is right or not, to decide to downplay the importance of hospital maintenance and use in favour of a programme which starts with 5 hubs is an interesting development in NHS provision. Uncharted territory and let’s hope it works!

Casdon

ronib

I seriously struggle to understand your point PoliticsNerd so shall not bother.

It’s really simple when you get your head round it.

The tiers are:

Primary care

Local Community hubs providing care for a geographical area to a group of primary care practices

Secondary care providing acute and complex treatments which require extensive clinical support services to function

This thread is about local community hubs, whereas you want to talk about secondary care services on your local area.

It's probably not the concept that is difficult to understand, it was just PoliticsNerd's post.

ronib

I seriously struggle to understand your point PoliticsNerd so shall not bother.

It’s really simple when you get your head round it.

The tiers are:

Primary care

Local Community hubs providing care for a geographical area to a group of primary care practices

Secondary care providing acute and complex treatments which require extensive clinical support services to function

This thread is about local community hubs, whereas you want to talk about secondary care services on your local area.

Thanks growstuff. This piece shows very clearly promises made by the previous government, not this one. It shows they were not kept and were part of the huge hole they left any new goverment to sort out.

This government has come forward with plans to make the NHS more workable and up to date. Although it is early days what they have already done is showing real signs of success.

I do think some contributors have yet to realise that this may well have been the worst fiscal inheritance any government has had to cope with in most people's life- times, with the exception of directly following the war. The context in which the government is working is one where taxes are the highest for 70 years. Last time Labour was in government debt was 40% of GDP. This government is dealing with debt of nearly three times as much. Amazingly they are managing to move things forward. However, each time they try to move forward they have uncovered unfunded promises made by the LAST Government (40 new hospitals is an example) and services falling apart from years of neglect.

Perhaps you could criticise this government for not having made this clear enough, but they are really moving at an amazing pace. No one would have expected everything to be put to rights by year one of a new government after the war but that's what they seem to be expecting now. The destruction of housing, infrastructure, education and lives was obvious after the war. Just because it's not obvious not now does not mean it doesn't exist, sadly this time brought about directly by our own Conservative governments - not another country.

I seriously struggle to understand your point PoliticsNerd so shall not bother.

ronib

PoliticsNerd Casdon does not think the thread should be about the 40 hospitals rebuild so shall we save this for another day?

Casdon pointed out that you seem to be confusing two different areas of change ronib, not that we should not discuss things you put forward as a truth but cannot show any proof. With no proof this can only be designed to appease your bias (we all have them). I can certainly agree with Casdon that your repeated unproven argument could be seen as a "red herring", i.e., an attempt to redirect the conversation away from the original topic.

If you stop trying to defend the indefensible then I will have no reason to reply - so it's in your hands - no need to talk about it now, or on "another day" if you don't try and repeatedly push it into the conversation.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

ronib

On second thoughts PoliticsNerd after a two second search, I found
New Hospital Programme:plan for full implementation
Jan 2025
Look under Waves of delivery for individual hospital development, and costs
www.gov.uk
So I really haven’t made it up ….

I assume it's this:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-hospital-programme-review-outcome/new-hospital-programme-plan-for-implementation

Maybe you could start a thread about the hospitals because they're not relevant to a thread about the usefulness of the new hubs,

growstuff

It's already started to happen round here. An increasing number of outpatient clinics are taking place in local hubs. Travel time is reduced and parking is easier. Good move.

It works really well here.

I already have a ‘community hub’ in my area - it’s the old Cottage Hospital which never closed. They currently do physiotherapy and rehab for post-op and stroke patients.

I’ve had physio there and my friend’s husband had rehab after his stroke. Both were excellent, and right in the heart of our small town so limited travelling.

They’re one of the hospitals that have been allocated one of the recently announced new scanners. Maybe they’re going to expand the treatments they offer, which would be fantastic.

I think that was likely down to a staff member of the MIU not knowing how the system works Allira, because there is an agreement that emergency attendances at A&E and MIUs can be to anywhere in the UK. Otherwise we would get no service except in our home country.

Welsh patients attending English MIUs on the border are paid for by the Welsh NHS. Interesting, thanks.

Some English residents have to use a Welsh GP surgery but friends of ours who live in England were in fact shouted at for attending an English MIU. Another was sent away to go to a MIU in Wales - where he was told he should have gone to the new English MIU!

On second thoughts PoliticsNerd after a two second search, I found
New Hospital Programme:plan for full implementation
Jan 2025
Look under Waves of delivery for individual hospital development, and costs
www.gov.uk
So I really haven’t made it up ….

Welsh patients attending English MIUs on the border are paid for by the Welsh NHS. If you are describing where I think you are, an English MIU also closed, to render the other one viable. It’s down to patient attendances, so amalgamating patients from a number of small units to make one viable is the safest thing for patients - whether the unit which remains is one side of the border or the other is immaterial. The key thing is for a unit to have enough patient numbers that the staff involved maintain their clinical knowledge and experience. As a patient I wouldn’t want to be treated in a tiny unit where staff have come from elsewhere in the hospital specifically to see me when I attend, and haven’t seen a patient with my problem for years.

PoliticsNerd Casdon does not think the thread should be about the 40 hospitals rebuild so shall we save this for another day?

I cannot find a publicly available, official list specifically detailing plans to rebuild 40 hospitals across the UK. If you know one please reference it ronib, otherwise it's a myth.

Political parties, particularly the Labour Party and some local councils, have previously announced commitments to invest in healthcare infrastructure, including hospital rebuilding or major refurbishment projects. The Conservative Party also pledged funding for NHS infrastructure improvements in various manifestos.

There are still minor injury units in Wales, there is one in the town nearest to me. However, small units were closed on the recommendation of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine some years ago because without dedicated staff they were deemed unsafe.

There has always been one on the English side of the border at a community hospital (and now a brand new one) but the one on the Welsh side shut years ago, more's the pity as the staff were very good.
People who live in England have gone to the Minor Injuries Unit at their nearest community hospital in England to be told they shouldn't attend there (a mere 7 or 8 miles from their home) because their GP surgery is in Wales. Then the Welsh hospital tell them they shouldn't go to the Welsh Hospital (20 miles away) because they live in England.

If only Health had not been devolved!

Allira

Casdon

Allira

Pippa000

Of course this 'country wide ' programme ( according to BBC), is only being rolled out in England. Therefore Wales, Scotland and I think N Ireland is not part of the scheme. I do wish that new reports would actually mention this.

In England only.

Yes, me too, Pippa000

I’m sure that Scotland has already gone down a similar path as Wales with this, so both are ahead of England. I have no knowledge of Northern Ireland though, I know the political environment resulted in many delayed decisions, but may have moved forward now.

I'm surprised if what has happened in Wales is the same as what is now proposed for England because it is no advancement whatsoever, not if this cross-border area is typical. England is far ahead of Wales with hubs, drop-in centres, day surgery, joint surgery, minor injuries units at community hospitals etc.
None of that is evident in Wales.

It isn’t. In terms of infrastructure, the Welsh model is ahead of England. Hubs are already established, as are Neighbourhood Care Networks. England has been hampered in development by the purchaser/provider split, and doesn’t have integrated working between health and social care to the same degree. Wales has a lot of issues within the NHS too, but it’s the secondary, acute services where patients are affected most here.
There are still minor injury units in Wales, there is one in the town nearest to me. However, small units were closed on the recommendation of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine some years ago because without dedicated staff they were deemed unsafe. The same has happened in England too.

Like others have said they are partially reinventing the wheel. We were only saying a few months back that they should never have closed cottage hospitals. Our local clinic is under threat and many elderly people are worried that they will have to pay for a taxi to get to a central place to have something as so ple as a blood test. I'm in favour of having as much as we can locally and keeping the hospitals for more major things.

Those who live in Wales, do you think they work and reduce the pressure on major hospitals? I’d be interested to hear from Welsh grans. What kind of things do you have done in them? I’m all in favour of it myself.

Casdon

Allira

Pippa000

Of course this 'country wide ' programme ( according to BBC), is only being rolled out in England. Therefore Wales, Scotland and I think N Ireland is not part of the scheme. I do wish that new reports would actually mention this.

In England only.

Yes, me too, Pippa000

I’m sure that Scotland has already gone down a similar path as Wales with this, so both are ahead of England. I have no knowledge of Northern Ireland though, I know the political environment resulted in many delayed decisions, but may have moved forward now.

I'm surprised if what has happened in Wales is the same as what is now proposed for England because it is no advancement whatsoever, not if this cross-border area is typical. England is far ahead of Wales with hubs, drop-in centres, day surgery, joint surgery, minor injuries units at community hospitals etc.
None of that is evident in Wales.

I think you mean a list prepared for the previous government ronib. You know what this government is doing regarding that list already, because there has been extensive discussion on this forum about it before? I still think you’re confusing the issues, because this thread is not about the general hospitals rebuilding programme.