New ^left^ political party?

MaizieD

^know several people who work there and they love it. It wouldn't be my cup of tea but I suspect it really depends on what type of work you are doing there.^

I'm sure it's fine if you are far enough up the food chain but, just like Victorian Britain, it rests on the back of a highly unequal distribution of wealth. The workers who service the wealthy and build the facilities it offers live and work in appalling conditions.

My ex in-laws lived in a luxurious apartment, in which there were two rooms about the size of a downstairs loo, but they were empty and had no air-con. When my ex MiL asked what these rooms were for, she was told they were bedrooms for the servants. My ex in-laws didn't have live-in servants, so they used them to store suitcases and assorted junk.

Think about it! How does anybody create wealth? Do some people (apart from the national bank) have some magic formula to create gold out of thin air without using any other resources or taking it from somebody else?

If they do, please could you explain because I'd love to cook up some wealth in my magic cauldron.

A question I'd love an answer to, as well, growstuff

know several people who work there and they love it. It wouldn't be my cup of tea but I suspect it really depends on what type of work you are doing there.

I'm sure it's fine if you are far enough up the food chain but, just like Victorian Britain, it rests on the back of a highly unequal distribution of wealth. The workers who service the wealthy and build the facilities it offers live and work in appalling conditions.

ronib

Well some economies are thriving- Luxembourg, Dubai etc with very low or no taxation on individuals. Dubai has excellent education and healthcare and is
expanding into tourism. Doesn’t have a national debt. An economic model initially based on oil and gas but expanding into other areas. It seems to be thriving even though it has many millionaires and even wealthier people who are sucking money out of the Dubai economy, according to some analysts….. seems to me that this particular economy is working in a different way?

Dubai has very low population, many of the workers are short term migrants that are widely exploited.
Luxembourg very low population and tax laws that enable big companies like Amazon and Apple to pay very low tax rate, even though the activity within the country is little more than a shell company. Ireland, low population also has very low company taxes attracting many international big names.

The UK has a large, growing and aging population is in the opposite position.

ronib

I don’t think a wealth tax is very effective.
Don’t forget that the wealthy are often geographically mobile and may be more willing to relocate to save their wealth.
I think paradoxically that the UK needs to attract wealth creators rather than turn them away. However Amazon should definitely pay its fair share.

Think about it! How does anybody create wealth? Do some people (apart from the national bank) have some magic formula to create gold out of thin air without using any other resources or taking it from somebody else?

If they do, please could you explain because I'd love to cook up some wealth in my magic cauldron.

icanhandthemback

MaizieD

Dubai sounds like hell on earth when you look at the reality.

spheresofinfluence.ca/dubai-migrant-workers-

borgenproject.org/poverty-in-the-united-arab-emirates/

I know several people who work there and they love it. It wouldn't be my cup of tea but I suspect it really depends on what type of work you are doing there.

I bet they're not living 14 to a non-air conditioned room.

My ex-in laws lived in Dubai for nearly ten years. I think it also depends what kind of social life you want and whether you want to socialise with the people who live there. After about 18 months, my ex MiL couldn't stand it and used to come back to the UK for most of the year, while her husband stayed there.

ronib

Well some economies are thriving- Luxembourg, Dubai etc with very low or no taxation on individuals. Dubai has excellent education and healthcare and is
expanding into tourism. Doesn’t have a national debt. An economic model initially based on oil and gas but expanding into other areas. It seems to be thriving even though it has many millionaires and even wealthier people who are sucking money out of the Dubai economy, according to some analysts….. seems to me that this particular economy is working in a different way?

It seems to be working in the same way French or Russian societies worked before their revolutions.

MaizieD

Dubai sounds like hell on earth when you look at the reality.

spheresofinfluence.ca/dubai-migrant-workers-

borgenproject.org/poverty-in-the-united-arab-emirates/

I know several people who work there and they love it. It wouldn't be my cup of tea but I suspect it really depends on what type of work you are doing there.

The reality MaizieD is for a category of British worker, the sinking ship to abandon is the UK one. It’s breathtaking to see that happening as it’s the UK which is thought to be the country which is offering so little to its highest earners. The trend is set to continue with the wealth tax under review.
The lowest earners in Dubai may leave the country as they are not forcibly held there, one hopes. Just like here.

Dubai sounds like hell on earth when you look at the reality.

spheresofinfluence.ca/dubai-migrant-workers-

borgenproject.org/poverty-in-the-united-arab-emirates/

Well some economies are thriving- Luxembourg, Dubai etc with very low or no taxation on individuals. Dubai has excellent education and healthcare and is
expanding into tourism. Doesn’t have a national debt. An economic model initially based on oil and gas but expanding into other areas. It seems to be thriving even though it has many millionaires and even wealthier people who are sucking money out of the Dubai economy, according to some analysts….. seems to me that this particular economy is working in a different way?

MaizieD

^ That is exactly what has happened www.cityam.com/millionaires-leave-britain-in-record-numbers-since-labour-took-power/^

Not true

taxjustice.net/press/millionaire-exodus-did-not-occur-study-reveals/

Just some wildly exaggerated numbers.

The wealthy only create wealth for themselves. They suck money out of the economy and use it to increase their own wealth while avoiding as much taxation as they possibly can. The current economic ruling theory is designed to do this.

This is largely true, if you have a business that makes money you use it to enjoy the lifestyle you want, (which is often not lavish) then use retained profit to expand the business.

Many start with rented property then take a business loan and buy the property (s), that becomes their pension fund. You take risks, those that are successful (many aren’t) end up with a lot of wealth in property and working capital.

Often family members are involved in the business and a lot can be transferred to them over the years, but there is no taxation on those transfers, there does need to be some taxation on those transfers wether done by gifts or otherwise

^ That is exactly what has happened www.cityam.com/millionaires-leave-britain-in-record-numbers-since-labour-took-power/^

Not true

taxjustice.net/press/millionaire-exodus-did-not-occur-study-reveals/

Just some wildly exaggerated numbers.

The wealthy only create wealth for themselves. They suck money out of the economy and use it to increase their own wealth while avoiding as much taxation as they possibly can. The current economic ruling theory is designed to do this.

ronib

I don’t think a wealth tax is very effective.
Don’t forget that the wealthy are often geographically mobile and may be more willing to relocate to save their wealth.
I think paradoxically that the UK needs to attract wealth creators rather than turn them away. However Amazon should definitely pay its fair share.

That is exactly what has happened www.cityam.com/millionaires-leave-britain-in-record-numbers-since-labour-took-power/

I don’t think a wealth tax is very effective.
Don’t forget that the wealthy are often geographically mobile and may be more willing to relocate to save their wealth.
I think paradoxically that the UK needs to attract wealth creators rather than turn them away. However Amazon should definitely pay its fair share.

I agree this government should crack on and consider wealth tax and re nationalise water. Renationalising water will cost us all - shocking situation not of this governments making

Corbyn and Sultana can crack on in establishing their true socialist party. Labour can establish itself as a social Democratic Party. Maybe the tories can rebuild with a decent leader. Maybe Farsge will disappear in several pints and twenty fags

Cumbrianmale56

M0nica

Cumbrianmale56

Corbyn's party will do very little. It will probably appeal to middle class students who want to play at being lefties, hard left union reps who are stuck in the seventies, and a few angry Labour voters. Also if Corbyn steps down as leader, the new party will be another faceless far left faction that few people will care about.

Spot on.

Far left parties do nothing over here. The Communist Party achieved almost nothing in the last century, although its members did infilrate factories and stir up trouble for years, and the ultra left groups like the SWP are mostly confined to universities. People who are to the Left, though not on the extremes, usually join Labour or the SNP as it's the best way for them to promote their ideas,

I suspect a Corbynite new party might attract the voters who are angry about Labour's attitude to Palestine. I think there are currently five independent pro-Palestinian MPs.

Grantanow

A Corbynite party would weaken Labour and let in Reform. A disastrous result.

A lot can happen in four years. The Conservatives might actually find an effective leader and regain some of its lost voters, in which case the right-wing would be split.

M0nica

Cumbrianmale56

Corbyn's party will do very little. It will probably appeal to middle class students who want to play at being lefties, hard left union reps who are stuck in the seventies, and a few angry Labour voters. Also if Corbyn steps down as leader, the new party will be another faceless far left faction that few people will care about.

Spot on.

Far left parties do nothing over here. The Communist Party achieved almost nothing in the last century, although its members did infilrate factories and stir up trouble for years, and the ultra left groups like the SWP are mostly confined to universities. People who are to the Left, though not on the extremes, usually join Labour or the SNP as it's the best way for them to promote their ideas,

Cumbrianmale56

Corbyn's party will do very little. It will probably appeal to middle class students who want to play at being lefties, hard left union reps who are stuck in the seventies, and a few angry Labour voters. Also if Corbyn steps down as leader, the new party will be another faceless far left faction that few people will care about.

Spot on.

Corbyn's party will do very little. It will probably appeal to middle class students who want to play at being lefties, hard left union reps who are stuck in the seventies, and a few angry Labour voters. Also if Corbyn steps down as leader, the new party will be another faceless far left faction that few people will care about.

MayBee70

icanhandthemback

From my reading it seems that the "new party" is already in a state of disarray and arguing amongst themselves. That said, I am happy to see more political parties with seats in the House of Commons because I don't think a landslide win for any party works well.

Landslide victories are better than eg having to bribe parties like the DUP to prop you up though. Nothing wrong imo with the ruling party having a good workable majority. But we always need a good, functioning opposition with a good strong leader and that we haven’t got at the moment. Not helped by the media brainwashing everyone into believing that Reform (with it’s 4 MP’s) are the actual opposition.

Yes, I partly agree with you but a working majority it better than a landslide majority. As for a strong opposition, yes please. Preferably one who puts ideas forward rather than just point scoring!

How, do you think, Grantanow? If it is seen by the electorate as the far left no longer being part of the Labour Party, because they have their own party, it will surely allay a lot of peoples fears about voting Labour? If the new party offers radical solutions, it’s more likely to attract those who are already disaffected I think. I must be missing something, but unless a number of existing MPs with some influence defect, I just don’t see a significant impact, they have more power causing disruption from within, which I think is why this hasn’t happened before.

A Corbynite party would weaken Labour and let in Reform. A disastrous result.

I wonder whether Corbyn will stand in the next election? With four years to go, when you are 76 now, the prospect of the physical and mental challenges of running a new party must be daunting. I can’t see Sultana as a leader, so unless there are defections from Labour of some big hitters, rather than a mopping up of the expelled and disaffected, I think the new party will be on the sidelines.