Israel to conquer Gaza. Part 3

The present Israeli government is right wing and includes a few very hard right members, come the elections then the people will decide what they want for the future, but right now decisions have to be made and like them or not this government like all governments have got some things right and others wrong, but have had to deal with something terrible that they never thought could happen.
It’s coming to an end soon but is still a very tricky situation.
Since you introduced the subject of WW2: It’s no wonder that Jews throughout Europe needed a safe country they could call their own and flocked to live there or in the US.They still aren’t safe there of course, not completely and not after the horror show in October two years ago.

foxie48 Palestinians are constantly being radicalised by the Israeli governments actions.

Of course they are.

Oreo

Sadly Whitewavemark2 in certain cases it’s all too true.

I have no doubt anti-semtism exists. But it is an entirely different issue to what we are discussing which is the Israeli governments actions

Of course the Holocaust is relevant to the "present situation " in Gaza. Although Zionism was around before the Holocaust, it was the Holocaust which helped to give Zionism much more support from other countries and eventually led to the creation of Israel and it's acceptance as a nation state by many countries. The creation of the State of Israel was seen as a means of giving Jews a safe country but the displacement of those Arabs who had been living there for generations has created this current situation. If Israel imagines it can become safe by putting the population of Gaza in, what will effectively be an open air prison, I'm afraid they are wrong. More oppression will lead to more terrorism and more recruits for Hamas. Palestinians need a future not a prison.

Oreo

With those provisos any war or conflict could be deemed genocide, when they clearly aren’t.

Nevertheless guilt has been established.

And I am confident that Israel has a serious case to answer.

Sadly Whitewavemark2 in certain cases it’s all too true.

With those provisos any war or conflict could be deemed genocide, when they clearly aren’t.

Oreo

The anti-Semitism in this country ( as well as the rest of Europe) has never gone away Anniebach and at the moment is getting free rein dressed up as something else.Am guessing that when the Gaza conflict is over it will settle down again and go underground.

Claiming anti-semtism because people are criticising the actions of the Israeli government is nothing more than a paper tiger.

I think frankly that it is impossible now to argue that what is happening in Gaza is not genocide or at least ethnic cleansing

It ticks more or less all the boxes except perhaps those sbout the children. Israel isn’t moving children anywhere - it is simply killing them through violence, starvation and lack of medical facilities and care.

Definition of genocide

Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as:

... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[9]
Article 3 defines the crimes that can be punished under the convention:

(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 3[9]
The convention was passed to outlaw actions similar to the Armenian genocide and the Holocaust.[10]

I have no doubt that the international courts are gathering all the necessary evidence just as they did in Bosnia etc. and don’t forget it wasn’t necessary for the whole of Bosnia to be killed - only 8000 men and boys were killed - but genocide was the verdict.

Rather an arrogant view Oreo. Many people are 'clued up' about the holocaust. It's a part of history that we find abhorrent and many of us learn about throughout our lives.

The anti-Semitism in this country ( as well as the rest of Europe) has never gone away Anniebach and at the moment is getting free rein dressed up as something else.Am guessing that when the Gaza conflict is over it will settle down again and go underground.

Ah, the ‘number of Jewish friends’ being wheeled out again.
Something interesting to chew on, I know for an absolute fact that there are quite a few Jewish GN’s but they won’t admit being Jews on here and two have told me, for fear of being targeted in posts.Shocking isn’t it?
Since Jews have as many ( more!😄) opinions as the rest of the world there will be very many responses to how they view the situation in Gaza.Of course, goes without saying.
On the Holocaust however, only historians are as clued up on it as Jewish people.And it has zilch to do with the present situation.

Oreo I listened much to Lii Ebert, she was a survivor of the Holocaust, died last year age 100 ,

Oreo

growstuff

Oreo

Caleo

Oreo, you mat be Jewish but that does not mean you are better informed about what causes atrocities.

It means I’m better informed about the Holocaust than you.
Some of your comments are very ill founded and odd.

Being Jewish does not mean that you are necessarily better informed.

It just happens that I am, as are all my friends and relatives.
I think you’ll find that all Jews are pretty clued up on the events of over 80 years ago.

I've no doubt they are. However, quite a lot of non-Jews are pretty clued up too. Frankly, I find it a tad arrogant for you to claim that you are more knowledgeable than somebody whose background you don't know. Jewish people don't "own" knowledge about the Holocaust or the lessons which the human race should have learnt. I assume you also have knowledge of the Warsaw Ghetto.

I have a number of Jewish friends who are also pretty knowledgable and they are utterly horrified by what is happening.

I think that you will find that opinions differ just as much in the Jewish diaspora as they do amongst Christian’s, Muslims and secular groups.

So being Jewish does not give you more clue.

Nobody is disputing his knowledge of the Holocaust

But his view on the so-called ‘humanitarian city’ is not worthy of any consideration?

growstuff

Oreo

Caleo

Oreo, you mat be Jewish but that does not mean you are better informed about what causes atrocities.

It means I’m better informed about the Holocaust than you.
Some of your comments are very ill founded and odd.

Being Jewish does not mean that you are necessarily better informed.

It just happens that I am, as are all my friends and relatives.
I think you’ll find that all Jews are pretty clued up on the events of over 80 years ago.

Nobody is disputing his knowledge of the Holocaust.
I’m always wary of posters who bring WW2 into any thread in order to point score.
The present conflict in Gaza, which is almost over is nothing like either the Holocaust or anything else that happened 80 years ago.
Hamas is almost on its knees now so the end is very much in sight and Israel will do what it has to do both to get the remaining hostages home and to begin the reconstruction of Gaza.One thing for sure, it won’t be allowed to go down the same path again.

Oreo bettter informed than Prof Amos Goldberg, historian of the Holocaust at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, whose view you dismissed in my earlier post?

Oreo

Caleo

Oreo, you mat be Jewish but that does not mean you are better informed about what causes atrocities.

It means I’m better informed about the Holocaust than you.
Some of your comments are very ill founded and odd.

Being Jewish does not mean that you are necessarily better informed.

To me from Oreo:

"Some of your comments are very ill founded and odd."

You can say that again!

AGAA4

By killing all Palestinians?

Yet there are two million there still very much alive.There are no suggestions forthcoming from anyone here as to how Gazans can be housed and fed while Gaza is being rebuilt.None at all.
Nothing has happened as yet but all the comments are totally negative.It may never happen but if camps are necessary then they are, in fact there are camps now as in tented enclaves.

Quote AGAA4 Thu 10-Jul-25 10:57:03
Hamas has been severely weakened. Lost leaders and is not much of a threat to Israel.
Israel is a huge threat to those Palestinians who haven't been killed yet. It's laughable that people still say Israel is defending itself.

There are many who will take the places , I am quite sure , it
wasn’t a small number who invaded Israel 7th October 2023,
the large numbers who,mocked the released hostages , Hamas are Palestinians

By killing all Palestinians?

AGAA4

Hamas has been severely weakened. Lost leaders and is not much of a threat to Israel.
Israel is a huge threat to those Palestinians who haven't been killed yet. It's laughable that people still say Israel is defending itself.

It was defending itself and now it’s making sure that a comparable situation doesn’t happen again.