Resident (Junior) Doctors vote to strike

Oh goodness, I rarely exchange with you PoliticsNerd!!

I notice other posters have decided not to as well.

Allira

Starting salary £36.616 rising to £70,425, before the pay rise which is to be implemented in August and will be backdated to April. That is for a basic 40 hour week without overtime, unsocial hours etc.

Mamie Trying to adjust the number of training places so that fewer overseas doctors could apply. It resulted in an exodus of UK doctors instead.

Ah I thought that was just consultants, not the years post F1 F2.

I really don’t think they will have the support of the public this time round. They agreed a settlement very recently and now they want more. We would all like more, but the country can’t afford this continual cycle of strikes and pay rises.

Wes Streeting is so anti the strike while at the same time Angela Rayner is wanting to make it easier for strikes to be called. 🤷‍♀️
Best hang onto our hats.

Allira

PoliticsNerd

No. If you disagree find the figures and the comparisons elsewhere and prove you are right. It is not my job to do it for you Allira.

I think the problem with many of the older generation is we get more and more out of touch with salaries here and overseas, the longer we are not in that world. It happens to us all as we get further away from working life. That's why some of us check the market for those filling these jobs before we post.

It is not my job to do it for you Allira.

Throwing out a claim like grossly underpaid without backing it up with facts is rather meaningless.

Then ignore it Allira.

I find your posts the most egregious and aggressive that are made in answer to mine. I'm sure that others won't, and of course they too may have their opinion. However, as far as I'm aware I am still allowed the choice as to who I provide information for and who I don't.

Seems Wes Streeting today suggested striking doctors can have higher pay - if they agree to slash their gold-plated pensions.

The Health Secretary put the option on the table as he launched an excoriating attack on the decision to stage a five-day walkout.

PoliticsNerd

No. If you disagree find the figures and the comparisons elsewhere and prove you are right. It is not my job to do it for you Allira.

I think the problem with many of the older generation is we get more and more out of touch with salaries here and overseas, the longer we are not in that world. It happens to us all as we get further away from working life. That's why some of us check the market for those filling these jobs before we post.

It is not my job to do it for you Allira.

Throwing out a claim like grossly underpaid without backing it up with facts is rather meaningless.

Starting salary £36.616 rising to £70,425, before the pay rise which is to be implemented in August and will be backdated to April. That is for a basic 40 hour week without overtime, unsocial hours etc.

Mamie Trying to adjust the number of training places so that fewer overseas doctors could apply. It resulted in an exodus of UK doctors instead.

No. If you disagree find the figures and the comparisons elsewhere and prove you are right. It is not my job to do it for you Allira.

I think the problem with many of the older generation is we get more and more out of touch with salaries here and overseas, the longer we are not in that world. It happens to us all as we get further away from working life. That's why some of us check the market for those filling these jobs before we post.

So where will the money they want actually come from?

Allira

Mamie

They have been employing more highly qualified doctors from overseas, rather than training the doctors who have graduated in the UK. After the initial F1 F2 years (after 5 years of university) young doctors have found it very hard to get further training in their chosen specialism. The UK is the only country in the world that does not prioritise its own students. Wes Streeting is trying to change this; it was a policy of the last government.

It didn't work in 2008.

He needs to take a totally different approach.

Sorry Allira, what didn't work in 2008?

PoliticsNerd

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Bet most of us just knew the BMA would be agitating for more again this year. Hardly any of us are surprised….

Wouldn't you be either looking for your pay to be increased or another job FGT, if you were grossly underpaid?

grossly underpaid

Please could you post pay scales, overtime and unsocial hours pay and define what you mean by that, please?

Mamie

They have been employing more highly qualified doctors from overseas, rather than training the doctors who have graduated in the UK. After the initial F1 F2 years (after 5 years of university) young doctors have found it very hard to get further training in their chosen specialism. The UK is the only country in the world that does not prioritise its own students. Wes Streeting is trying to change this; it was a policy of the last government.

It didn't work in 2008.

He needs to take a totally different approach.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Bet most of us just knew the BMA would be agitating for more again this year. Hardly any of us are surprised….

Wouldn't you be either looking for your pay to be increased or another job FGT, if you were grossly underpaid?

I totally agree with both parts of your view LizzieDrip and I bet we're not alone. However, I do see it as two parts, not two separate views.

They have been employing more highly qualified doctors from overseas, rather than training the doctors who have graduated in the UK. After the initial F1 F2 years (after 5 years of university) young doctors have found it very hard to get further training in their chosen specialism. The UK is the only country in the world that does not prioritise its own students. Wes Streeting is trying to change this; it was a policy of the last government.

After months of negotiations with the Tories, the doctors got pretty much what they wanted as soon as Labour was elected. They probably see them as a soft touch and might as well try their luck.

Resident doctors pretty much ARE the BMA now.

Yes, I read about that too Aveline. Are there not enough tutors? Why restrict numbers of desperately needed medics? It doesn’t make sense. 🤷‍♀️

Aveline

It was the BMA that restricted training places for medical students.

When the Government restricted speciality training places for Junior Doctors in 2008, in order to prevent overseas students taking up too many places, it resulted in an exodus of young British doctors overseas as they couldn't get on to training programmes.

I don’t think the doctors will carry the public along with them this time.

It was the BMA that restricted training places for medical students.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Bet most of us just knew the BMA would be agitating for more again this year. Hardly any of us are surprised….

Of course.

The BMA has become far more militant in recent years since more confrontational leaders took over.
Doctors were always respected but, with this attitude, they will lose goodwill.

Bet most of us just knew the BMA would be agitating for more again this year. Hardly any of us are surprised….

I’m afraid I have some cognitive dissonance on the issue of this strike.

On one hand I believe that doctors deserve to be paid more than they currently are.

On the other hand I believe that, if the BMA makes this into a battle with the government (and the public), they force Labour into a very difficult position, and run the risk of ‘pushing’ people into the arms of Reform UK, which would mean the death of the NHS as we know it. Surely the BMA understands this.

For the first time in 15 years we have a government that genuinely believes in the NHS. The BMA could potentially be throwing them to the wall.

So, I’ve truly got two views in my head at the same time. Uncomfortable!