Resident (Junior) Doctors vote to strike

foxie48

Childcare is expensive for everyone but its difficult to arrange when you work shifts that constantly change, there's not really a regular pattern. DD works some 12 hour shifts, some 8 hours and nights and potentially can work any day or night in the year. She gets additional pay for this ( not that she has a choice like other health care professionals) which I think is perfectly reasonable. Wouldn't you expect to be paid more for working nights on New year's eve or doing a 12 hour shift on Christmas day?
Tbh some comments on here sicken me, doctors should be paid commensurate with the level of training, conditions of work, level of responsibility and the fact that they effectively have only one employer if they want to continue their training and that is the NHS. They leave uni with more debt than most graduates, have about 10 years of further training ahead of them, are constantly moved during this time to hospitals which can be an hour or more travel apart, have to scrabble for the training places they need without any guarantee they'll get one .... I could go on because I've seen it at close hand together with the stress, exhaustion and disillusionment that most doctors experience. You need to be pretty tough and resilient to make it through. Doctors shouldn't have to threaten to strike for their pay to keep pace with the private sector, it should be a given.
To those who say they knew what they were going to be paid, I've already answered that upthread, they didn't! However you should thank your lucky stars that clever, talented and hard working school leavers still want to be doctors because when they stop, the NHS will be in an even greater mess. It's resident doctors that help to keep it going.

As someone who needed an emergency c section on Christmas Day I definitely support paying all HCP extra to work, my baby would have died without them and maybe I would have as well.

ronib

Exactly how much do the strikers earn and how much do they want? Perhaps they should consider a change of career to finance?
The last time the junior doctors went on strike, my local hospital was working well without them. It was easier for the senior doctors to get on with the work…..

Really? My DIL is a doctor and not how she described it at all. Maybe the senior doctors aren't doing all they could outside of strikes and they should step up and take some hours/pressures off the juniors.

Yes, Ronib and the rates for locums in NZ, Australia and the US are much, much higher than that. Why? Because doctors are recognised to have trained for years to gain their skills and those skills can be extremely specific to a particular role as well as a requirement to keep patients safe. If an ITU does not have the requisite number of trained staff available, it has to close. If the staff are not available for an operation to go ahead, the operation is cancelled and the theatre often stays unused. However, locums are basically self employed so that rate is not comparable with being on an NHS contract, they are not being trained and they have generally "stepped off" the ladder that leads to consultancy, if not permanently almost certainly temporarily. DD worked as a locum for a year when she wasn't offered a part two training post that she wanted to take as it was several hours away from where she had bought a house and she was in a relationship and had something of a life outside medicine. She earned much more than she earns now, doing fewer hours and taking holiday that enabled her to make extensive trips abroad. She was paid the market rate for her level of skill and experience which was far more than she gets as an NHS employee!

ronib

Another wow having looked up locum rates for gps £650 to £850 per day and enhanced hourly rates for F1 and up. Just wow

That is why you need to provide sufficient training posts for resident doctors and provide working conditions that will retain them in the NHS.
Then you don't have to pay the enhanced rates for locums.

Another wow having looked up locum rates for gps £650 to £850 per day and enhanced hourly rates for F1 and up. Just wow

Dog boarding £60 for each dog overnight.

Wow! Our kennel fees are £14 a night. And yes he's very well looked after and always happy to go 🐕

foxie48 - 👏👏👏👏👏

Childcare is expensive for everyone but its difficult to arrange when you work shifts that constantly change, there's not really a regular pattern. DD works some 12 hour shifts, some 8 hours and nights and potentially can work any day or night in the year. She gets additional pay for this ( not that she has a choice like other health care professionals) which I think is perfectly reasonable. Wouldn't you expect to be paid more for working nights on New year's eve or doing a 12 hour shift on Christmas day?
Tbh some comments on here sicken me, doctors should be paid commensurate with the level of training, conditions of work, level of responsibility and the fact that they effectively have only one employer if they want to continue their training and that is the NHS. They leave uni with more debt than most graduates, have about 10 years of further training ahead of them, are constantly moved during this time to hospitals which can be an hour or more travel apart, have to scrabble for the training places they need without any guarantee they'll get one .... I could go on because I've seen it at close hand together with the stress, exhaustion and disillusionment that most doctors experience. You need to be pretty tough and resilient to make it through. Doctors shouldn't have to threaten to strike for their pay to keep pace with the private sector, it should be a given.
To those who say they knew what they were going to be paid, I've already answered that upthread, they didn't! However you should thank your lucky stars that clever, talented and hard working school leavers still want to be doctors because when they stop, the NHS will be in an even greater mess. It's resident doctors that help to keep it going.

Dog trainers charge £50 or £60 per hour. Dog boarding £60 for each dog overnight. Cleaners and gardeners £30 -£50
Personal Trainers £50 per hour. My hair stylist drives a Ferrari

Yes, they’re self employed so need to insure and set up pension plans. They’re in charge of their work life balance and much less likely to be verbally or physically assaulted than a doc in A and E

fullfact.org/health/bma-junior-doctors-hourly-pay

Exactly Casdon. It’s also why child care should be both outstanding and subsidised

ronib

My son is paying £7 an hour to his childminder for one child (£1,200 a month) plus hefty after school club fees for the other. It really does eat into disposable income. I imagine to get back to the thread, that resident doctors will find childcare for a full working week quite expensive.

Yes ronib, which is of course why they should be paid at a rate commensurate with other similar nations. Full circle.

My son is paying £7 an hour to his childminder for one child (£1,200 a month) plus hefty after school club fees for the other. It really does eat into disposable income. I imagine to get back to the thread, that resident doctors will find childcare for a full working week quite expensive.

Agreed Pably. Unfortunately with football and any sport it all comes down to how many people they entertain and because millions are willing to pay, and they are the top 1% best at it, they get paid for that skill, whereas there is no shortage of people who will be a doctor for 100k per year. ITs unfair how the world works but ultimately we the people are responsible for the crazy fees these sports people get paid because we watch it.

No I had three daughters

One daughter is I imagine a lot easier to manage than three boys or girls Iam64. Also not cost effective to pay out for three or more children. Glad it worked out for you and your daughter Iam64

It wasn’t ronib, I had an excellent child minder from 18 ,
Months to 11 years of age. She was 70 today, her daughter, the same age as mine, invited us all to her secret party.
Child minders were assessed by a specialist from children’s services. Now the expectations are as fir nursery staff
Then - I wanted someone who would do the things I would if not at work. Auntie J had two dogs Like we did, she baked, gardened, went to the park, did snacks and homework at 4pm. We took our two girls each to the same swimming and pony riding groups

Iam64 no no not at all. Some mothers simply do not have the same support systems as others - an observation and not a wish. Actually child care provision was pretty non existent in the 80s as well if I remember.

I know this ronib. You seem determined to keep young mothers in the 1950s

Iam64 there’s no size fits all - some fathers will be very hands on and share responsibility for childcare whereas a few others won’t. There’s nothing written in stone on this. It’s the luck of the draw to some extent.

love0c

It is like giving into a blackmailer. They will always be back to demand more.

I can see the government giving them a bigger pay rise to buy them off this year, but saying next year the resident doctors might only get 3%. Still of the opinion doctors, nurses and paramedics, who are an emergency service, shouldn't be allowed to strike.

ronib, I think your taking the watzit with your comments suggesting fathers take no part in childcare.
GPs are leaving in droves, going part time and retiring early. It’s not all menopause related.
It’s the disdain with which staff were treatedvand neglect of the health service over the 14 years.

I’m not sure who you are talking about working on Christmas Day, ronib.

Thanks for posting foxie48 it’s uplifting to read that someone cares - not that your daughter should be disadvantaged for caring…..

ronib

foxie48 and her private practice income potentially is?

She doesn't have any and doesn't intend to do private work. Many consultants don't do private work sometimes because they are politically opposed to it, some just don't want to do it and others work in specialisms that don't attract private patients. To base someone's salary on what they might earn working outside the normal job is neither sensible nor moral as well as being highly discriminatory. Actually as I have said at the start of this thread, I don't support the BMA in this latest wage claim and neither does my daughter, she won't strike this time round but she does say that she is underpaid for the level of responsibility that she has. This week she has been on nights overseeing a cardiac ITU looking after patients who are seriously ill or who have had eg open heart surgery etc. She intends to combine Obstetrics with general surgery as she really loves helping women give birth safely and as comfortably as possible. Not much call for private work in that area, Ronib fortunately like many doctors she's not motivated by money.