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Do the Labour Party have Communist policies?

(211 Posts)
Wyllow3 Sat 12-Jul-25 11:39:47

There has been some confusion, over quite a long time on GN, by posters who suggest or state that the Labour Party has Communist policies

This is so incorrect, I decided to explain what Communism actual was both in theory and in the "Communist" states we have had/do have.

. My parents were Communists - and have also studied politics and economics at uni.

We haven’t ever had a ‘true” Communist society, but these are the features:

No one, no one at all, owns any private property, nor owns any businesses, nor own any land, nor the means of production, nor goods beyond their needs.



All run by the state, which in theory was post a workers revolution, and workers co-operatives.


In the original communist theory:

People are paid not according to their abilities, but their needs. 

All health and education and similar services are run by the state, no private opportunities at all. 



All receive a state pension/welfare is necessary however much they have paid in, ie, again, according to need, not savings and so on.



Of course, the societies called Communist did not reach this theoretical Communism, but there was certainly no private ownership or other kinds of ownership as described as above: and health, education and welfare all run by the state.

Note - meals were provided at work, and schools and all welfare places, but there was only a few years when meals were communally provided for those who wanted

Most people, as we do, wanted to eat at home except for lunch or other work breaks, where food was still supplied, and did so, once the turmoil of revolution ended

*But States we called Communist were was not run by Worker’s Co-operatives, they were run by supposedly free elections -

- hence the rise of those in power as we have known them, and the KGB et al*

I suggest we stop using the term Communist unless it is accurate.

It as happened so many times I decided to explain, and will again.

So.....hence this thread.

MaizieD Wed 16-Jul-25 09:03:57

David49

Galaxy

What about Geordies Wyllow? Or are we tricky to understand toosmile

Always, regional or overseas accents are hardest to pick up, when different words are used, fast pace of speech makes it worse.

There you are, Galaxy. You’re tricky to understand😆

I didn’t find the Durham accent problematic (note, I know Durhamers aren’t Geordies..) but I had come from Essex via Yorkshire so was probably more attuned to northern accents…🤔

David49 Wed 16-Jul-25 08:29:30

Galaxy

What about Geordies Wyllow? Or are we tricky to understand toosmile

Always, regional or overseas accents are hardest to pick up, when different words are used, fast pace of speech makes it worse.

PoliticsNerd Tue 15-Jul-25 20:07:55

I cannot understand the labeling of Keir Starmer as a communist.

To hold that perspective, and see what Starmer is doing as Communist, you would really have to stand very much to the right - perspective is everything in politics. The idea is inconsistent with Starmer's political record, policy positions, and ideological positions. These align more closely with social democracy than with communism.

Galaxy Tue 15-Jul-25 18:36:25

What about Geordies Wyllow? Or are we tricky to understand toosmile

Wyllow3 Tue 15-Jul-25 16:01:00

Yes, me too.

for all our people whatever the background the loving our place and the moaning about it, the way we can easily approach each other via the weather (😂), the way we have our summers and winters and glorious transition times of spring and autumn, to a political system that somehow "just grewed up"

and kept safe, whatever the shortcomings, by a pretty independent judiciary, our appreciation

- if only we would give it

- for differences both multi cultural and regional (I can't understand someone from Glasgow any more than from furrin' parts).

I think if I were to say what I missed, its a bit more of a Latin temperament, but of course, that's a personal feeling.

LizzieDrip Tue 15-Jul-25 14:33:39

David49

For me I’m just happy to have been born and lived in England and compared to any of the countries I’ve visited its fairer and freer than any other.

I also agree with you David and growstuff.

Yes, the UK is not perfect (what country is!) but, on balance, I am glad to have been born here and to live here. I value the freedoms we have compared to many others in the world.

We like to moan about what’s wrong with our country … but at least we have the freedom to do so.

I would like folk to sing the praises of our lovely country a bit more!

growstuff Tue 15-Jul-25 11:39:43

David49

For me I’m just happy to have been born and lived in England and compared to any of the countries I’ve visited its fairer and freer than any other.

David49 For once, I'm not going to argue with you. I can't honestly say that I'm proud of something over which I had no control. I was born in England, as were my parents and many generations going back about 500 years.

There is much I'd change about England (and the UK) if I had the choice. Nevertheless, I am so grateful that I was lucky enough to be born British.

If that makes me unnationalistic, so be it. I've never noticed that Starmer is unnationalistic either. I could criticise him for loads, but not caring about the country is not one of my criticisms.

I really think it would be useful if people discussing nationalism all meant the same thing.

Wyllow3 Tue 15-Jul-25 09:36:48

nanna8

Lyndie

Make of it what you will. I just remembered he said he was a Marxist fairly recently and as I couldn't remember when, so I tried to find out more and this came up.

Yes he did, I remember hearing that,too. On more than one occasion and seeing that I live many,many miles away it must have been quite widespread, within the last couple of years. It explains some of his actions and his desire to wipe out nationalistic tendencies in England.Luckily he isn’t very strong as a leader so he doesn’t follow his inner yearnings.

Oh nanna - it seems to me you've expressed it all upside down.

Its because he is strong as a leader - and does what a good politician has to - compromise on idealistic yearnings in order to get things done!

David49 Tue 15-Jul-25 08:31:39

For me I’m just happy to have been born and lived in England and compared to any of the countries I’ve visited its fairer and freer than any other.

growstuff Tue 15-Jul-25 08:06:37

David49

“What do you mean by "nationalistic tendencies"? I didn't realise he was trying to wipe them out (whatever they are). Incidentally, Starmer is the PM of the whole UK, not just England.”

It is quite acceptable to be proud of your Scottish, Welsh or even Yorkshire heritage, but somehow showing pride of English heritage is termed nationalism

So what do you mean by nationalistic?

It's not about pride in heritage (British, English or whatever) - there's more to nationalism than that.

PS. Starmer is still PM of the whole UK, not just England.

fancythat Tue 15-Jul-25 07:49:56

I was thinking that only last week.
In a broad way, it doesnt make sense in the slightest.

David49 Tue 15-Jul-25 07:07:22

“What do you mean by "nationalistic tendencies"? I didn't realise he was trying to wipe them out (whatever they are). Incidentally, Starmer is the PM of the whole UK, not just England.”

It is quite acceptable to be proud of your Scottish, Welsh or even Yorkshire heritage, but somehow showing pride of English heritage is termed nationalism

Mamie Tue 15-Jul-25 06:10:05

Goodness me, are we forever held to account for our politics in our teenage years and twenties? Are we not sllowed to grow and change?
I would have to confess to having been a Young Conservative for all of three weeks. How very embarrassing. 😡😡😡

growstuff Tue 15-Jul-25 04:15:28

nanna8

Lyndie

Make of it what you will. I just remembered he said he was a Marxist fairly recently and as I couldn't remember when, so I tried to find out more and this came up.

Yes he did, I remember hearing that,too. On more than one occasion and seeing that I live many,many miles away it must have been quite widespread, within the last couple of years. It explains some of his actions and his desire to wipe out nationalistic tendencies in England.Luckily he isn’t very strong as a leader so he doesn’t follow his inner yearnings.

What do you mean by "nationalistic tendencies"? I didn't realise he was trying to wipe them out (whatever they are). Incidentally, Starmer is the PM of the whole UK, not just England.

nanna8 Tue 15-Jul-25 00:46:11

Lyndie

Make of it what you will. I just remembered he said he was a Marxist fairly recently and as I couldn't remember when, so I tried to find out more and this came up.

Yes he did, I remember hearing that,too. On more than one occasion and seeing that I live many,many miles away it must have been quite widespread, within the last couple of years. It explains some of his actions and his desire to wipe out nationalistic tendencies in England.Luckily he isn’t very strong as a leader so he doesn’t follow his inner yearnings.

Wyllow3 Tue 15-Jul-25 00:00:54

Sorry Lyndie I missed out after I said "AKA", the International Revolutionary Marxist Tendency, which have of course morphed into the Socialist Workers Party.

Lee Anderson is a parody of political change - from quite Left, to Reform, but I dont hear it being called out in the same way?

Wyllow3 Mon 14-Jul-25 23:57:53

petra

Lyndie

From 1986 to 1987, Starmer served as the editor of Socialist Alternatives, a Trotskyist radical magazine produced by an organisation under the same name, which represented the British section of the International Revolutionary Marxist Tendency (IRMT).[283]

Wikipedia

As he was only there for a year I assume he saw the error of his ways. 🤷‍♀️

Yup. At Uni in 1972. I was VP of the Students Union so elections were...let's say, interesting.

.There were 4/5 mini very far left groups - Trotskyists aka as Lyndie said the main one...

but the Maoists were pretty "there" ....

then there was the split Communist Party (Euro Communists (the main one) and the Stalinists, and some obscure group I cant recall...

(And a great deal of conflict around how much time women actually got to speak out - I was pretty much chosen as the token woman, with far less experience but fit for purpose.

I stood on the "broad left" ticket which by the 1990's had pretty well morphed into New Labour under Blair (some of the people I knew became MP's or worked for such organisations as the then NCCL now Liberty)

Heady days, it doesn't surprise me at all the youthful idealism before reality sets in 🤣

Suggestions that this has somehow tainted what view he holds no, or to be more accurate, what policies he now has to espouse...

Might take a hard look at Boris Johnson for example at the utter misogyny and careless privilege of the Bullingdon Club at Oxford, at more or less the same time as Starmer (after a stint at Leeds Uni) went there......

Lyndie Mon 14-Jul-25 23:57:11

Make of it what you will. I just remembered he said he was a Marxist fairly recently and as I couldn't remember when, so I tried to find out more and this came up.

petra Mon 14-Jul-25 22:10:33

Lyndie

From 1986 to 1987, Starmer served as the editor of Socialist Alternatives, a Trotskyist radical magazine produced by an organisation under the same name, which represented the British section of the International Revolutionary Marxist Tendency (IRMT).[283]

Wikipedia

As he was only there for a year I assume he saw the error of his ways. 🤷‍♀️

Allira Mon 14-Jul-25 22:04:25

Lyndie

From 1986 to 1987, Starmer served as the editor of Socialist Alternatives, a Trotskyist radical magazine produced by an organisation under the same name, which represented the British section of the International Revolutionary Marxist Tendency (IRMT).[283]

Wikipedia

When he was young and idealistic!

Lyndie Mon 14-Jul-25 21:58:23

From 1986 to 1987, Starmer served as the editor of Socialist Alternatives, a Trotskyist radical magazine produced by an organisation under the same name, which represented the British section of the International Revolutionary Marxist Tendency (IRMT).[283]

Wikipedia

Wyllow3 Mon 14-Jul-25 20:18:31

Posters might like to read this 2019 article. Its instructive.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47975704

Wyllow3 Mon 14-Jul-25 20:13:38

Allira Stalin was really loved by many of his people, like it or not. Of course not intellectuals, or those educated who could see it for what it was -

but by huge numbers of very ordinary people - why is this so hard to acknowledge? It's a common enough phenomenon.

Many of us cant imagine for the life of us why people adore Trump so much they have pictures of him as the pope or even Jesus and the are not, to some, a joke.

www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=picture+trump+as+jesus+oval+office&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Allira Mon 14-Jul-25 19:52:48

I think if people eulogised Stalin in the press and erected statues of their Beloved Leader, they probably did so because it was preferable to being sent to the Gulag or worse.

Wyllow3 Mon 14-Jul-25 19:19:38

Explaining is not the same as excusing:

I am doing the former.