There has been some confusion, over quite a long time on GN, by posters who suggest or state that the Labour Party has Communist policies
This is so incorrect, I decided to explain what Communism actual was both in theory and in the "Communist" states we have had/do have.
. My parents were Communists - and have also studied politics and economics at uni.
We haven’t ever had a ‘true” Communist society, but these are the features:
No one, no one at all, owns any private property, nor owns any businesses, nor own any land, nor the means of production, nor goods beyond their needs.
All run by the state, which in theory was post a workers revolution, and workers co-operatives.
In the original communist theory:
People are paid not according to their abilities, but their needs.
All health and education and similar services are run by the state, no private opportunities at all.
All receive a state pension/welfare is necessary however much they have paid in, ie, again, according to need, not savings and so on.
Of course, the societies called Communist did not reach this theoretical Communism, but there was certainly no private ownership or other kinds of ownership as described as above: and health, education and welfare all run by the state.
Note - meals were provided at work, and schools and all welfare places, but there was only a few years when meals were communally provided for those who wanted
Most people, as we do, wanted to eat at home except for lunch or other work breaks, where food was still supplied, and did so, once the turmoil of revolution ended
*But States we called Communist were was not run by Worker’s Co-operatives, they were run by supposedly free elections -
- hence the rise of those in power as we have known them, and the KGB et al*
I suggest we stop using the term Communist unless it is accurate.
It as happened so many times I decided to explain, and will again.
So.....hence this thread.
Gransnet forums
News & politics
Do the Labour Party have Communist policies?
(210 Posts)Do the Labour Party have Communist policies?
No.
I don't understand why people think it.
No they don't.
No I don't even really think of them as 'of the left'.
They can’t have communist policies because this is not a communist economy.
Some countries like the Scandinavian countries and indeed most European countries including the uk, have a mixed economy to a greater or less degree, whereby, parts of the economy is owned and run by the state, usually because of risk in supply etc.
So armed forces, police, etc. but many, (most) of these countries also have brought into the state owned mix, things like health, education, railways, water, energy etc. often stuff is brought into state control because it is not thought to be run in the country’s interest when privately owned - look at our water companies.
That sort of economy is seen as a social democratic economy, which is a mix of capitalism and socialism.
Works well and usually benefits the population as a whole.
Whitewavemark2
They can’t have communist policies because this is not a communist economy.
Some countries like the Scandinavian countries and indeed most European countries including the uk, have a mixed economy to a greater or less degree, whereby, parts of the economy is owned and run by the state, usually because of risk in supply etc.
So armed forces, police, etc. but many, (most) of these countries also have brought into the state owned mix, things like health, education, railways, water, energy etc. often stuff is brought into state control because it is not thought to be run in the country’s interest when privately owned - look at our water companies.
That sort of economy is seen as a social democratic economy, which is a mix of capitalism and socialism.
Works well and usually benefits the population as a whole.
👏👏👏
Just incompetence not communism though I believe Starmer is a Marxist at heart. Most here support him so he must have some (very) hidden talents along with his front bench.
NotSpaghetti
^Do the Labour Party have Communist policies?^
No.
I don't understand why people think it.
Nor do I.
Who is thinking this?
Cant say I have noticed anyone on GN thinking that.
But I am not on all the n&p threads. By quite some way.
nanna8
Just incompetence not communism though I believe Starmer is a Marxist at heart. Most here support him so he must have some (very) hidden talents along with his front bench.
Can you give us one example of when Starmer has shown any Marxist tendancies, sympathies or policies?
Obviously you will need to enlighten us with your definition of Marxism.
Of course I fell out with Dad and Mum big time at 19, because they still sort of apologised for what Stalin had done. "Mistakes were made".
It was a terrible row, he shouted at me, but I felt I had been lied to.
He died a year later, but I often wondered how he would have fared when the Berlin Wall came down .
Because for many, an idealistic Communism was akin to a religion. My Dad in the 1930's was involved in the bitter fighting between Mosley, and Communists, fellow travellers, and Jewish friends.
In the financial and social depression of the 1930's, it's so understandable the dream of a fairer world appealed so strongly. But many got stuck, even my beloved sister, in the "hard liners". (we sung the "Red Flag" at her funeral - well, some did!
They stuck to their version of Communism right through the invasion of Hungary in 1956 and even C in 1968
C = Czechoslovakia. The tanks rolled in - it was the time of a rise in political change (the Paris riots?)
No , not remotely communist. It would be good if they were more social democratic though.
I think they are, vegansrock - but it's in subtle targeted ways, and those, deliberately under reported. I've found little moves that apparently dont count for much, but are doing a lot of good - rental reforms, re-engaging with the EU is a huge one, changes in the NHS (like many more "one stop" clinics cutting waiting lists massively - in ENT, in X rays, in cancer treatments and so on (some of these were of course in progress before, but early labour NHS moves sped it up) - extra money early on for GP clinics, settling immediate crisis on strikes as soon as they came in (yes I know more to come and complex, but totally and desperately needed at the time vis a vis Junior doctors)......
...not hiding the dreadful prison crisis anymore as the conservatives had done, and so on, and although they got the amount of the "black hole" inaccurate, nevertheless less it had been hidden.
I haven’t noticed anyone confusing Labour with Communism I must say.
There are some old Marxists in the Party tho 😁 Corbyn and Mc Donnell .I still smile at the memory of something I read, Corbyn and Dianne Abbot roaring , or puttering around Cuba on his motorbike.
Even they may have mellowed politically with the years.
Oreo
I haven’t noticed anyone confusing Labour with Communism I must say.
There are some old Marxists in the Party tho 😁 Corbyn and Mc Donnell .I still smile at the memory of something I read, Corbyn and Dianne Abbot roaring , or puttering around Cuba on his motorbike.
Even they may have mellowed politically with the years.
😄you just did😄😄
Some people have no idea what Communism is. The Labour Party were always Socialist until Blair came along.
Socialism is not the same as Communism...
Now even Labour voters don't know what Socialism means.
Oh, there have been a number of people Oreo over time, but of course I'm not going to name names as respect due, and the guidelines.
I recall three occasions - as it makes me hot under the collar that people throw the word "Communism" about -
without bothering to look up just a few basics - 10 mins tops?
Is this some sort of court of law or what ? If you believe something strongly that’s all there is to it in my book. I can’t be stuffed going into what I know about Marxism, religion, politics, literature, mathematics or anything else . Being bitchy here but many of the aggressive seekers wouldn’t probably get it anyway . My University studies in politics and history were a while back now but my long term memory isn’t bad ( unlike the short term part ) .
nanna8 does Australia have a mixed economy?
Wyllow3
I know what you mean. I lived in Bulgaria for 5 years prior to them joining the eu.
When I read those comments a voice in my head says: you have no idea.
It was a lot, lot more complex than it seems, indeed, petra.
(I think what I describe is what you are getting at? (Do correct me if I am wrong)
Those societies were not "all bad". Pensioners, the elderly, and people with disabilities have all suffered (depending on the country of course) - for example - in Russia and some other countries, older and vulnerable people look back at a system that gave security.
Romania of course was appalling in every way. It wasn't even the leader, Nicolae Ceaușescu, it was his wife. Their palace was the biggest in the world - and the overthrow probably the most dramatic.
(The very pleasant 40 something who helped me upgrade my computers was born there, came to the UK via the States, and told me a lot)
But the end of Communism in Czechoslovakia was called the "Velvet Revolution" - it was "ready to happen" and was peaceful.
What you are describing wyllow3 though bears no relation to the Marx description of communism.
John McDonnell;
“Hello, are you looking forward to having a Marxist in No 11?” was how McDonnell greeted a business executive. The MP has long spoken of his admiration for revolutionary socialist thinkers. In 2006 he named Marx, Lenin and Trotsky as his most significant intellectual influences (Jeremy Corbyn, by contrast, has confessed to not reading “as much of Marx as I should have done”).
No, the present Government is not Communist!
According to Lady Google,
Communism is a social organisation in which all property is owned by the community, and each person contributes according to their ability and needs
Hope this helps
nanna8
Is this some sort of court of law or what ? If you believe something strongly that’s all there is to it in my book. I can’t be stuffed going into what I know about Marxism, religion, politics, literature, mathematics or anything else . Being bitchy here but many of the aggressive seekers wouldn’t probably get it anyway . My University studies in politics and history were a while back now but my long term memory isn’t bad ( unlike the short term part ) .
So basically, you are complaining that participating in this discussion feels more like a debate—where ideas are scrutinised and argued—rather than just a casual forum where people simply state their opinions without much challenge.
It may help you to see GN's definition of "News and Politics". Our News and Politics forum is a buzzing hive of debate. From breaking news headlines, to UK political affairs, you can discuss them all here. Debate is not about being in a "court of law", but about treating the exchange of ideas with more seriousness and engagement.
Not everyone will want to delve into complex topics like Marxism, politics, or literature, but sometimes, a more structured discussion can help clarify different perspectives, even if it’s just for personal understanding.
If this is not your type of discussion, why not set up a suitable "Chat" thread. GN does provide a place for all types of discussion.
Join the conversation
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »