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Afghan mess up

(162 Posts)
Grantanow Wed 16-Jul-25 12:11:06

A real blunders- not by a civil servant - but, according to the DT, a Royal Marine responsible for vetting Afghan applicants. And one it took the MOD 18 months to realise and only then by an email from a concerned individual. The disclosure seems to have been widely shared on social media and the Taliban claim to have seen it too. Lives were put at risk and it was right to invite such Afghans to the UK but the case for secrecy and superinjunction was surely weak given the Takiban had the data.

Primrose53 Sat 19-Jul-25 21:58:19

ftm420

Sorry if this has been posted already but I read that a ECHR judge ruled that there is no definition of a 'family' and that in some cultures a 'family' constitutes a great number of relatives. Therefore for an Afghani, that might mean they can bring a dozen 'family members' here (whether they are actually at risk or not), and not just Mum, Dad and the kids. We are such a stupid nation.

I read that too ftm420*. It’s like we are too scared to make the rules. It’s high time we stopped allowing people to tell us what to do.

What’s wrong with saying we will only take spouses and children. take it or leave it. We know absolutely nothing about their extended families - they could be rapists, murderers or dirty old men with 7 year old wives. Think how easy it would be to bring your child bride here posing as your daughter or even grand daughter.

ftm420 Sat 19-Jul-25 21:29:03

Sorry if this has been posted already but I read that a ECHR judge ruled that there is no definition of a 'family' and that in some cultures a 'family' constitutes a great number of relatives. Therefore for an Afghani, that might mean they can bring a dozen 'family members' here (whether they are actually at risk or not), and not just Mum, Dad and the kids. We are such a stupid nation.

Primrose53 Sat 19-Jul-25 19:23:06

escaped

I have a suggestion to help sort things out.

Perhaps allow posters who lived in the area, and know the locality like the back of their hands, to offer the best perspective of the views of the local community.

Good idea escaped.

Primrose53 Sat 19-Jul-25 19:22:09

The average number of “relatives” each Afghan brings with him is 8. One man brought 22.

Honestly, this country is such a soft touch. 😡

escaped Sat 19-Jul-25 19:17:41

I have a suggestion to help sort things out.

Perhaps allow posters who lived in the area, and know the locality like the back of their hands, to offer the best perspective of the views of the local community.

escaped Sat 19-Jul-25 19:12:45

I know St Margaret's Hospital very well growstuff . DD1 had all her maternity appointments there. It's actually further from Tesco in Epping (where the troubles were) than the Bell Hotel in the other direction. So, not in exactly in Epping either if you're trying to be precise with distances.

"themetropolitanandurbanarea" was how my phone (here in France) wrote the metropolitan and urban area. Apologies.

it's a suburb of London
No, The nearby forest gives protection from the encroachment of the London suburbs. Epping’s identity is linked with that of Epping Forest. In fact it is now known as “the Town of the Forest”. The town is shielded from the London suburbs by Epping Forest.

growstuff Sat 19-Jul-25 18:19:05

escaped

^But it's not really a small Essex town. It's a suburb of London.^
Perhaps you'd like to ask that question of those who know:
[email protected].
(Note the word town).
Epping is not a suburb of London. It is part
of themetropolitanandurbanarea of London.

Other posters must find this very boring, but best to set the record straight!

In reality, it's a suburb of London.

Is "themetropolitanandurbanarea" (as one word) some kind of Newspeak?

growstuff Sat 19-Jul-25 18:14:53

What does any of this have to do with the UK leaking information about Afghans?

growstuff Sat 19-Jul-25 18:14:23

Primrose53

Oreo

Your comments always seem designed with controversy in mind to me growstuff
In this case I wonder which leafy paradise you choose to live in.
On the few occasions we have been to Epping I found nothing wrong with it at all.

Controversy and having to have the last word, which is often fictitious. 😉

Pardon?

Not at all. Epping is at the end of the London tube and St Margaret's Hospital is my default hospital for breast cancer - nothing fictitious about that. I agree that my impression that it's a dump is subjective.

The timeline of the events in Epping is factual (unlike some others).

But I wouldn't ever have expected a more gracious comment from you Primrose.

Primrose53 Sat 19-Jul-25 13:12:08

Oreo

Your comments always seem designed with controversy in mind to me growstuff
In this case I wonder which leafy paradise you choose to live in.
On the few occasions we have been to Epping I found nothing wrong with it at all.

Controversy and having to have the last word, which is often fictitious. 😉

windmill1 Sat 19-Jul-25 12:37:02

eazybee

Yet another shambles, where there does not seem to be any account of how many have entered, how many are genuine claimants, where they are, and if their families are allowed to come too.
This country is being filled up with young men from violent countries, and no track is kept of their whereabouts.

Young men of fighting age, claiming to be escaping war-torn situations (although they can't seem to identify where exactly) but apparently comfortable to leave behind mothers, wives, sisters,etc, to deal with the accompanying attrocities.

escaped Sat 19-Jul-25 12:28:18

But it's not really a small Essex town. It's a suburb of London.
Perhaps you'd like to ask that question of those who know:
[email protected].
(Note the word town).
Epping is not a suburb of London. It is part
of themetropolitanandurbanarea of London.

Other posters must find this very boring, but best to set the record straight!

growstuff Sat 19-Jul-25 12:04:02

escaped

GrannyGravy13

escaped I cannot be bothered anymore with the prejudice and snobbery on here regarding Epping.

😆
How daft to start a disagreement about a small Essex town!
By the way, Epping's crime rate is lower than the Essex average.

But it's not really a small Essex town. It's a suburb of London. Loughton, Theydon Bois and Epping are a continuum. The hotel in question is right on the outskirts and isn't even officially in Epping. It isn't near any schools. It's been used to house asylum seekers. Before that, it was run down and even the locals say it wasn't very busy. It was possibly running at a loss.

The man charged with sexual offences is in custody (according to the official Essex Police website). Nevertheless, genuinely concerned people are allowed to protest peacefully. It is "fake news" that the people attacking police belonged to Antifa. They belonged to various right-wing groups. At least two were arrested and I understand one has been charged.

There is also fake news on social media that the police were bussing people in. They were actually giving locals lifts in their vans, so they could avoid the violence. One of Tommy Robinson's mates has posted a video, which he thinks shows that "his side" won. What it actually does is provide proof of them intimidating locals. There's a question about he was doing there anyway, if this was only concerned, local parents.

There is actually a background to this. Earlier in the week, a security guard from the hotel was attacked and there were reports of racist shouting outside the hotel (according to Essex Police). "Vox pop" interviews are never representative of all views, but there are reports by locals that the hotel residents have not been a problem. One woman even said that there was more trouble when the building operated as a hotel.

What does any of this have to do with the data breach concerning Afghans?

growstuff Sat 19-Jul-25 11:46:50

Primrose53

GrannyGravy13

I do know someone who was there, the locals and parents were not in masks, everything was peaceful, then a mob of outsiders arrived in masks attacking the police and the locals.

My son calls them Rent A Mob. They have professional placards and know exactly where to turn up at the drop of a hat to stick their noses in. All they do is stir things up and aggravate the situation.

Oh, and most of them look like they need a good wash. 😉

I agree. Racist rent-a-mob thugs are indeed a pain.

sundowngirl Sat 19-Jul-25 11:41:54

Oreo

Pity there’s a hosepipe ban Primrose53 😁💦💦

It's a pity that water cannons are illegal in the UK (othe than Northern Ireland)

Oreo Sat 19-Jul-25 10:11:29

Pity there’s a hosepipe ban Primrose53 😁💦💦

Primrose53 Sat 19-Jul-25 09:59:57

GrannyGravy13

I do know someone who was there, the locals and parents were not in masks, everything was peaceful, then a mob of outsiders arrived in masks attacking the police and the locals.

My son calls them Rent A Mob. They have professional placards and know exactly where to turn up at the drop of a hat to stick their noses in. All they do is stir things up and aggravate the situation.

Oh, and most of them look like they need a good wash. 😉

Oreo Sat 19-Jul-25 09:54:07

Females who are unprotected ( by men) or those females who wear Western clothes when the asylum seekers are only used to seeing women swathed in long layers of material are considered as fair game by many cultures. That doesn’t mean that they will all act on it, but some will do.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 19-Jul-25 09:46:51

TerriBull good post, I agree.

I did post up thread that it is naive not to acknowledge that different cultures have a totally different outlook towards women.

Obviously not all asylum seekers are going to be sexual predators, just like not all British men are sexual predators.

escaped Sat 19-Jul-25 09:46:35

GrannyGravy13

escaped I cannot be bothered anymore with the prejudice and snobbery on here regarding Epping.

😆
How daft to start a disagreement about a small Essex town!
By the way, Epping's crime rate is lower than the Essex average.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 19-Jul-25 09:44:10

escaped I cannot be bothered anymore with the prejudice and snobbery on here regarding Epping.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 19-Jul-25 09:42:55

Tbh I have no idea as it is an area of the country I’ve never visited.

Suffolk is the nearest I’ve got to it. Quite nice there.

escaped Sat 19-Jul-25 09:38:05

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

That is not the Epping I recognise.

You don't live near.

No but we have several friends there and visit frequently.

If it is good enough for Rod Stewart and many other high profile people, its good enough for me.

😄😄😄 I had no idea that Rod Stewart was a harbinger of good taste - you learn something every day.

OK good taste .....
Historical figures like Henry VIII, and Queen Elizabeth I were lured to Epping for hunting, and a good feast afterwards
Shakespeare's 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' was first performed at Copped Hall in Epping

It's not a dump.

TerriBull Sat 19-Jul-25 09:33:38

I think we need to be open enough to admit, both here in Britain and in Europe there have been cultural problems as to how women and girls have at times been harassed and subjected to sexual assaults from a "sector" of asylum seekers, not wishing to tar all with the same brush. However, the assaults in Cologne and the denials that followed would be an example of obfuscation. As and when an assault occurs that needs to be addressed with openness. I personally question the sincerity of anyone who says they are fleeing persecution and then go on to commit crimes in their host country, surely if you want permission to settle in that country you would obey the laws and respect the culture. Right now, there is a court case of an alleged rape of a young woman in a public toilet in Bournemouth by a Syrian asylum seeker, we know the area and people who live there, there have been problems with asylum seekers since a couple of hotels in Bournemouth have been accommodating them. That's not to say, ALL, and that's also not to say, that the young woman who is bringing this case could just as well have been attacked at the hands of a British male, public toilets, depending on where they are and what time anyone uses them can render women vulnerable. However if her assailant had been home grown, well apart from him being punished appropriately there's nothing that could be done as to expulsion. I do think if an asylum seeker commits a serious crime then they should automatically be deported and possibly local voices need to be heard they won't all be out and and out racists seeking to burn the hotels down but communities have a right to feel their youngsters will be safe, well as safe as they can be in this day and age.

On the wider issue of the op, I absolutely thought we had a duty of care to give the Afghans who did so much for our forces, sanctuary here.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 19-Jul-25 09:32:09

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

That is not the Epping I recognise.

You don't live near.

No but we have several friends there and visit frequently.

If it is good enough for Rod Stewart and many other high profile people, its good enough for me.

😄😄😄 I had no idea that Rod Stewart was a harbinger of good taste - you learn something every day.