A drop in the ocean in the great schemes of things....but replicated by how many more

Nevertheless, it seems obvious to me that men should not be in women’s spaces.

keepingquiet

There is no shortage of money in this country- that's a myth told to keep poor people poor.

We are in fact a very wealthy country it is just that some who have lots of it don't want to share it out...

I agree. I also think that justice should not depend on money, so should never be means-tested. Precedent in law should be made to benefit all of us, not just those rich enough to pay for it or poor enough to get it free.

I get why it feels frustrating, especially when you see large amounts of public money being spent on individual cases while there are wider financial pressures. But a lot of these costs come from legal obligations—things like due process, appeals, and human rights laws mean cases can’t just be decided internally or quickly, even if it seems like “common sense” from the outside.

In cases like deportation or disputes, the system is designed to ensure decisions are legally sound, otherwise they can be challenged again later, which can end up costing even more. That said, many people do argue that there should be faster and more efficient ways to handle such cases without such high expenses.

It really comes down to balancing fairness with cost, and that’s where the debate is. Even in other countries, people question how public funds are used and look into support systems and policies—if you’re interested in how such frameworks work in Pakistan, you can check this guide here: 👉 8171web-portals.pk/

I thought as a country we are skint.

We are. Partly because of this sort of stuff.

House prices are coming down.
That wakes a few people up.
Though may not be as many on GN for obvious reasons. Though they do care about problems gc have.

But even then, some will give any number of reasons other than the obvious ones.
I dont even want to list what reasons will be given!

Sorry half my text disappeared. Dr Upton is a man and men have no right to be in women's spaces.

to be in women's spaces. Each organisation that believes that isn't the case will face legal challenges. There is another similar case about to proceed regarding the NHS.

What money? I have been waiting for my right wing money for years. Nothing. Most disappointing.
It is women organising, fundraising, as they have always done. People find it threatening but that has always been the case.

The law firms are laughing all the way to the bank and far beyond.......

Dr. Upton did not have a right to be there. He had, apparently, sought permission but the person who agreed had no authority to grant it, as there was no policy in place, and certainly no discussion with female staff members had been conducted.
It was made perfectly clear to him that his presence was making the female occupant uncomfortable, particularly as she was dealing with the consequences of a heavy menstrual flood. Any considerate person, male or female, would have left immediately, instead of which he insisted on staying and began to undress, apparently determined to provoke maximum embarrassment. Such behaviour from a doctor in particular was reprehensible, and from a much younger man to an older colleague, disrespectful.
He then compounded his actions by spending the next day, Christmas Day, attempting to get Sandie Peggie sacked. An extremely unpleasant person, and highly unsuitable for the medical profession.

Glasweegran you’re determined to support Upton, why ? S/he could have recognised Peggie’s situation and said hey, I’ll come back later , take care. Or something similar. Most women walking in on that would have empathised, their own needs would be secondary

eazybee

I believe Upton had used,( tried to use?) the female changing rooms twice previously, but Sandra Peggie left immediately.
The third time she was in the process of washing and in a state of undress. He refused to leave, asserting his (mistaken) right to be there and began to undress.

I have more thoughts about this but as the Tribunal is in progress best not to express them. But if they have occurred to me they will have occurred to S.P's Barrister.

Dr Upton did have a right to be there. She was told by the management that was appropriate, and she followed that advice.
She was doing nothing wrong by changing in a changing room that she had been explicity told she could use.
Giving her dogs abuse for doing that, calling her names behind her back, that's not right, and that's why the nurse was suspended, for bullying another staff member who had done nothing wrong.

Galaxy

Surely people aren't still using the right wing funding nonsense. I mean that claim was laughable a decade ago.

So where is the money coming from then?

I believe Upton had used,( tried to use?) the female changing rooms twice previously, but Sandra Peggie left immediately.
The third time she was in the process of washing and in a state of undress. He refused to leave, asserting his (mistaken) right to be there and began to undress.

I have more thoughts about this but as the Tribunal is in progress best not to express them. But if they have occurred to me they will have occurred to S.P's Barrister.

Before Lea Thomas' reign as bogus women's swimming champion ended, I believe the complaints in the locker room were numerous, not least from the women forced to share complaining of him exposing his genitals whilst undressing. Any complaints were of course dealt with in the usual way since the world entered into a state of complicit madness, "you women go and change in the toilets" so they did, forced into that small area, whilst the man had the entire women's locker room to himself.

In the Sandie Peggie debacle, a man will never be able to understand some of the issues surrounding menstruation when a heavy period would soak through clothing and the urgency to deal with that. It would certainly have a startling and effect to enter what should be a sanctuary for women at such a time, only to find a man in there.

These are the men who feel it's their god given right to override women's feelings and what they want should be absolutely paramount. Possibly this is more of a male characteristic that a female one, women historically have been expected to capitulate to men. I hesitate to say male entitlement, because that besmirches all men and many are on the side of women in this matter, I know my man is.

It’s difficult not to conclude that Dr Upton dmintrsted misogynistic behaviour. Male privilege

Dr Upton should not have been in that changing room.

If you (a woman) were in a women's changing room and another woman came in with a menstrual flood requiring a change of clothes, surely you would ask if you could help and then, if not, you would leave her in privacy as soon as you could. Dr Upton could have shown that kind of consideration and then this whole thing would never have happened.

Precisely Oreo. If found myself in the care of Dr Upton, I’d request to see another Doctor. I wonder if I’d be refused treatment as a result. All those signs in hospitals saying to treat staff with dignity and respect or else

This whole debacle is about a man imposing their own wishes on a woman then expecting the woman to ‘go elsewhere’ or even better to be dismissed.
The sheer cheek of it is breathtaking.
Also the fact that a trained doctor really believes he is a woman.

Galaxy

Oh and women even women who may hold views we don't like are entitled to spaces without men.

Well said Galaxy

Oh and women even women who may hold views we don't like are entitled to spaces without men.

Surely people aren't still using the right wing funding nonsense. I mean that claim was laughable a decade ago.

Naomi Cunningham KC, Sandie Peggie's barrister, referred earlier in the Tribunal to the relating of 'spiteful tittle -tattle'. It seems that yesterday's offerings are similar.

Nurse Fiona Wishart (41) recalled a lunch in September 2023 when Sandie Peggie was heard making derogatory remarks about Dr. Upton; "she said she had forgotten the details but was told the comments were 'weirdo, freak and it', although those terms were not used at lunch." (If they were not used at lunch how could she have heard them? This appears to be hearsay. )Wishart couldn't remember how others responded or whether terms beside 'weirdo, freak and it' were used: 'No, I don't think so.'
Wishart also claimed to have heard Ms, Peggie make derogatory remarks about people of other sexual orientations, ethnic minorities, immigrants and a mosque. She said 'These are opinions that don't align with mine.'

The tribunal Judge has given permission to bring forward two additional witnesses to give evidence about the wider culture at the hospital, particularly regarding a fear of speaking out.
Naomi Cunningham said 'the difficulty is persuading anybody to come forward and tell the tribunal; that difficulty is caused by the price of speaking up about these issues inside NHS Fife.' (DT 29.07. 25.)
Dr. Theodore Upton attempted to get Sandie Peggie dismissed; she was suspended for a period of time, a transfer to another hospital suggested and her relationship with her daughter questioned.
Not surprising witnesses unhappy about male doctors using their changing rooms are reluctant to come forward.

The mere fact that Sex Matters is involved is red flag enough. A pop up pressure group, well funded but with no sources of income to show.. her financial backer.... so you stop to wonder where that money is coming from ?? (most likely US Christian rightwing) Oh dear, that old chestnut yet again! Such a lazy argument. Sex matters is funded, in the main, by ordinary people making regular or irregular small donations.

Let's not lose sight of the simple fact that if she was so bothered by the doctors presence in the changing room, she only had to go change somewhere else, or wait till the room was clear. Proof positive that you are posting from second hand reports from biased sources and not from any observation of tha actual evidence given at the tribunal. That Sandie left the changing room without any comment and waited outside for Upton to leave was used against her as further evidence of her wrongdoing.

then bully that person about it rather than sort it out with management. did you miss the bit where she complained to her line manager and absolutely nothing was done about it? Upton is male, the changing room is the female one, he had no right to be in there. If you've ever suffered a menstrual flooding, would you have been happy to clean yourself up and change your bloodied clothes in front of a man?

Glasweegran I couldn’t disagree with you more.
Why should a female go change somewhere else than the women’s changing room. Why didn’t Dr Upton do that