UK mercenaries serving abroad - should be illegal.

Claremont I don’t argue with your repeated comments about Jewish people who are anti Netanyahu, or refuse to serve in the IDF,
It’s important to acknowledge it works both ways. Many members of the north Manchester Jewishcommunity are considering moving to Israel as the place where they avoid anti semitism.

More and more young Israelis in Israel are refusing to serve in the IDF currently, even serving prison sentences and having their studies and careers ruined due to this. If someone from abroad actually volunteers to go there and join in this genocide and to protect illegal settlers violently taking other peoples' homes and livelyhoods, they are doubly guilty.

Anyhow, International Justice has made it clear long ago that following orders does not excuse war crimes. Volunteering for them, is totally another matter.

Shemima Begum?

as said before, what if they chose to join the other side of the conflict, or another conflict altogether that you don't approve of, as dual British nationals.

The fact is, they will have to answer for their actions, and their crimes.

So what? It’s their decision to join the conflict or not.

''It’s unclear exactly how many foreign nationals are serving in the Israel-Hamas war. The IDF didn’t respond to questions about those figures or concerns that other nations might follow South Africa’s example.

Dual nationals make up a sizable share of society in Israel. Many children of foreign-born Israelis also receive second citizenship through their parents.

And Israel’s military has numerous programs to recruit foreigners to serve in the IDF, including in the “Mahal” volunteer program for Jewish people and as “lone soldiers,” who have no other family in Israel. The nonprofit Lone Soldier Center says there are more than 7,000 of them, with 18% from the U.S. and 14% from former Soviet Union states.''

several countries have started to interrogate both dual nationals and visitors about war crimes in Gaza- either when returning home , or visiting as tourists.

Oreo

And just because it’s in the papers you can’t always believe it either.

Of course you can when the news is on 10, 20, 30 plus news outlets in this country and overseas and on all sides of political divides and when varius cuntry leaders have all responded to it.

The problem is that Hamas doesn’t care how many civilians died whether from bombs and bullets or starvation, Israel obliges them and is quite prepared for civilians casualties in attacks on Hamas.

We are still getting propaganda films on media, yesterday we had starving women and children on one, another featured a large group of men grieving alongside bodies ready to be buried. Those men were fit and healthy in fighting condition they are they starving the civilians to feed the fighters?

Both films were pure propaganda, women and children last in the food queue.

And just because it’s in the papers you can’t always believe it either.

Oreo It is not rubbish. I have included links to two articles that quote Israeli government ministers saying that that is what what the Israeli government intends to do quite clearly.

Here is another reference. This time from that most respectable of Labour supporting papers, The Guardian www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/07/israeli-minister-reveals-plan-to-force-population-of-gaza-into-camp-on-ruins-of-rafah

Just because you cannot believe something does not mean that it is not true

I think that’s rubbish Monica
There are just about two million people still in Gaza and if Israel really just wanted everyone dead there would be plenty more bombing raids.
Showing hungry children makes it harder for Israel not easier.
They don’t count the cost of guns and bullets when it comes to hamas.
And has anybody thought, that if Egypt and Jordan offered to open the borders and allow even just women and children through to safety and food aid, how much that would help Gazans? But they won’t.

David49

M0nica

Hamas and the IDF are two sides of the same coin. they compete to prove their worth by doing worse and worse things to the other's population.

I think everyone should withdraw, stop supplying weapons and everything else to both sides, including food and leave them to stay under siege until they are starved into reaching an agreement.

Of course I know that that is a ridiculous solution and completely untenable, but both sides are as bad as each other, A plague on both their houses.

I’m surprised that non combatants - women, children and old men have not been allowed out of the ever smaller Hamas controlled areas then at least they could be cared for. With non combatants separated IDF could then finally clear out Hamas.

The Israeli government doesn't just want to get rid of Hamas, it wants to get all the Palestinians out of the Gaza. It has at various times talkedof their forced removal to the West Bank or even all Palestinians should be forceably resettled across the Middle East and other muslim countries.

It has said so several times. edition.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-plans-to-capture-all-of-gaza-under-new-plan-officials-say and many other reports.

The alternative is for the Israelis to kill, one way or another all the Palestinians living in Gaza and it is, of course much cheaper to kill them by starvation and illness than to drop bombs on them or waste money using guns and bullets to shoot them. although a little of that now and again can be helpful in speeding up the achievement of their aims.

I would have thought hunger was so bad now most would be so desperate they would do anything to feed the children.

Quote Oreo Thu 24-Jul-25 08:16:43
That sounds a very good idea David49 but it could be that the women in the household refuse not to have their man included as in Gaza as in many other countries, without a protector women are vulnerable.
If they could get it to work tho, it would really be for the best.

Women giving orders ?

That sounds a very good idea David49 but it could be that the women in the household refuse not to have their man included as in Gaza as in many other countries, without a protector women are vulnerable.
If they could get it to work tho, it would really be for the best.

M0nica

Hamas and the IDF are two sides of the same coin. they compete to prove their worth by doing worse and worse things to the other's population.

I think everyone should withdraw, stop supplying weapons and everything else to both sides, including food and leave them to stay under siege until they are starved into reaching an agreement.

Of course I know that that is a ridiculous solution and completely untenable, but both sides are as bad as each other, A plague on both their houses.

I’m surprised that non combatants - women, children and old men have not been allowed out of the ever smaller Hamas controlled areas then at least they could be cared for. With non combatants separated IDF could then finally clear out Hamas.

Quote M0nica Wed 23-Jul-25 20:13:35
Hamas and the IDF are two sides of the same coin. they compete to prove their worth by doing worse and worse things to the other's population.

I think everyone should withdraw, stop supplying weapons and everything else to both sides, including food and leave them to stay under siege until they are starved into reaching an agreement.

Of course I know that that is a ridiculous solution and completely untenable, but both sides are as bad as each other, A plague on both their houses.

Americans are same as English, French as Scots, Jews same as Muslims, , a plague !

Hamas and the IDF are two sides of the same coin. they compete to prove their worth by doing worse and worse things to the other's population.

I think everyone should withdraw, stop supplying weapons and everything else to both sides, including food and leave them to stay under siege until they are starved into reaching an agreement.

Of course I know that that is a ridiculous solution and completely untenable, but both sides are as bad as each other, A plague on both their houses.

I don’t believe comparisons are helpful. The level of high expressed emotion is understandable. What the Israeli govt and IDF are perpetrating is horrific
Calm heads are needed here if peace is ever to be achieved

petra

^but they are now clearly attacking another people In the most vicious and barbaric of ways^
Much the same as Hamas did on that awful night 🤬

Oh it was, vicious, barbaric and we all agree, absolutely and totally. Nobody, not a single one of us has ever condoned it.

60.000 dead and the rest starving and new illegal settlements everywhere, a whole land destroyed and stolen now, and concentration camps planned- and there is NO comparison.

I agree with petra and Iam64.

It's not down to us, on social media, to decide what is or isn't a terrorist group.
In fact, it's not down to the BBC either as they refuse to call Hamas a terrorist group even though it is designated so by several governments.

Why on earth do they not release the rest of the hostages, dead or alive? This intransigence is causing their people untold misery because the Israeli Government doesn't look as if it will cease this war until they do.

As Petra reminds us, the terrible actions from Israel were the response to the Hamas rapes and murders of civilians as a music festival.
My belief if it’s gone much too far but it’s important to remember the horrors inflicted by Hamas

but they are now clearly attacking another people In the most vicious and barbaric of ways
Much the same as Hamas did on that awful night 🤬

Iam64

*who are the terrorists now*

Claremont, I do not identify the Isreali government or the actions of its military as terrorist. I am horrified by its attacks on Palestinian people, the bombing, the shooting of adults and children waiting for food aid, the constant demands that Palestinian people move from one area to another. We await the official legal definition of war crimes, though it seems the majority view is that war crimes are being committed.

Hamas is a terrorist group.

Diplomacy is the only possible way to the dream of a two state solution.

why not? If Israel was only defending its teritory, that would be one thing. But they are now clearly attacking another people in the most vicious and barbaric of ways, and taking more and more territory illegally. Doesn't that make their actions war crimes, and akin to terrorism? None of their army will be protected when the day of reckoning comes- but even less those who have volunteered to serve in this manner, rather than be ordered into conscription by their Governement. Although previous war tribunals made it clear that 'following orders from above' is never an excuse for war crimes.