200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists

Agree this thread is mean spirited and gives no real facts to support what is often a “fake news” trope used by far right wing/Tabloid reader mentality. I would be interested to know evidence of the dates, the amount that was not recouped, how it relates to different parts of NHS and over what period of time this relates to. It would be inhumane not to treat travellers in need. NHS needs overhaul (so much waste and old fashioned processes which I have seen as recent volunteer in local hospital) but that is a separate issue. I don’t think we are being taken for a ride. That implies intent. We need to pay more tax and get to grips with real issues competently - which sad/disappointing to say, this govt is not so far.

petra

The £200 million is only for invoices issued. The majority of hospitals don’t issue an invoice as they know is a waste of time.

How do you know this is the case?

Yes thanks Allia, that did become apparent after we'd researched that.

From what I understand, even in the US, if for example a foreign national were to have say a serious road accident or be caught up in some sort of terrorist explosion, they would be hospitalised and treated for their injuries. Emergencies would be covered, but I believe there are categories of hospitals in the US and some British people I know who did have such a road accident (minor) and were transported to hospital at which time ,they being conscious they were asked for details of their insurance policy to determine the level of hospital care they went on to receive.

So we get threads condemning foolish Brits who travel to places without insurance in place and then set up Go Fund Me or whatever to aid their hospital fees and return home. Most countries do not want to treat foreign nationals to their health care free of charge. Personally, if I couldn't afford the insurance, and it can be costly, I wouldn't go. Of course I think any foreign national caught up in an accident or for a dire emergency should receive medical care though, treatment for on going conditions are another matter.

What sort of healthcare system does the rest of Europe have?
Genuine question. I mean, people get very worked up about scrapping the NHS but other countries manage - are the French & Germans any less healthy than us?

I certainly agree that anyone who needs treatment whilst in our country - on an emergency basis (not a planned basis!) - should receive it. But they must pay for it if they aren't a resident of a Western country we have a reciprocal arrangement with.

This has been going on for decades - ie that we've just been used for this. I recall back in the 1980's that a lodger of mine (from a country we did not have such an arrangement with) had an accident and I could see she had cut her hand so badly that she was going to need stitches. So I walked her up to the local A & E Department, told the receptionist what the issue was and requested treatment for her - BUT I made sure to tell that receptionist which country she was from (ie Venezuela). It couldnt have been made clearer to them that, after she'd been treated, she should be given a bill for it - but they didn't give her one. Goodness knows that the only way she could have evaded such a bill would have been to move out from my house - as I was quite happy to provide the relevant address for her.

Nobody expects someone who is here anyway - rather than coming here deliberately just to use us - would be refused treatment. But they must pay personally - if their government doesnt have that reciprocal arrangement with us.

I do get very annoyed at people who come out with a "should have colonial guilt" trip playing on us - when 99.9% of us have nothing to do with what some other peoples ancestors (but not ours personally) did.

Kandinsky

What sort of healthcare system does the rest of Europe have?
Genuine question. I mean, people get very worked up about scrapping the NHS but other countries manage - are the French & Germans any less healthy than us?

They all have some sort of universal socialised health service - I looked at it once for GN - looked at every country, all different but no one is left without healthcare.

keepingquiet

I know this is also ex-pats who come back, give their previous home address or the address of a relative, and get their treatment, then go back to wherever they are now.

Except for the ones who have UK state pensions, hold S1 forms and are fully entitled to use the NHS.

I guess the issue is, it's those who come to the UK on purpose to use the NHS for free and then go home. Not those who have a mishap here or fall seriously sick. It's those who set out to take advantage of the NHS because its free, and then leave our system drained.

I'm currently sitting on a 6 hour ferry homeward bound after 2 months abroad. In my purse I have a UK GHIC, a French carte vitale from when I worked there and paid contributions, and my travel insurance information. I cover all eventualities, as why should a foreign country have to pay the bill for my treatment?

I have accompanied several people to A & E abroad, and believe me, you don't get past the triage receptionist without filling out reams of paperwork and presenting your documents.
I wonder why we can't be bothered to do that in the UK.

It’s people who come from other countries knowing full well they have a heart condition, are heavily pregnant or something else very serious. They get themselves to an NHS hospital and get operated on. I am not talking about people who have an accident on arriving here although some countries charge for that too.

It’s not nasty or mean spirited to expect people to pay for their treatment here. As I said, other countries charge for it.

A neighbour’s mother went to canada to visit relatives and they insisted on seeing her medical insurance documents before they would treat her for gallstones. Likewise a man I know took ill in Mexico and the same thing happened there, he was charged for the ambulance too.

I watched a programme where a woman from Portugal came here supposedly on holiday but she admitted it was really do she could have heart surgery. There was a man from Egypt who had a similar story. Both claimed they couldn’t afford it in their home countries but knew they would be treated here.

We do!! I’ve watched the forms being filled in - A&E

Whitewavemark2

We do!! I’ve watched the forms being filled in - A&E

So where is the payment for their treatment then if there's such a shortfall.

My cousin, on holiday in Spain, developed dreadful stomach pains in the middle of the night.

When the paramedics arrived, he was writhing on the floor. (Turned out to be pancreatitis or similar, needed operations etc).

The first thing they wanted to see, before attending to him, was their proof of travel insurance.

Does that happen here?

primrose

I can’t begin to understand where you are getting all your very unpleasant and misinformed information from

Portugal has a universal healthcare system.

And you simply can’t rock up and get your operation on the NHS whilst on holiday. 😄😊

I have never heard such utter rubbish.

Apart from anything else and always assuming it is possible which it isn’t what about the waiting lists?

You really need to be more critical over your so called “I know for certain” facts.

You don’t and they are wrong.

Where have you told us how much the NHS already recovers from foreign patients Primrose53, for a balanced discussion isn’t that an essential piece of information?

My DIL broke her ankle in Spain. A&E - a week in hospital and sent home with all the necessary medical notes and medication.

Free.

And that is since Brexit!!

I fell and crushed a couple of vertebrate in France.

A&E, medication, x-rays and notes - I paid 15€ which I reclaim at a town hall.

Free

Before Brexit.

What those critical of the system seem not to know is that the U.K. has many reciprocal health care arrangements with other countries, including the EU and EEA. As well as others like Australia, Montserrat, and others.

LizzieDrip

petra

The £200 million is only for invoices issued. The majority of hospitals don’t issue an invoice as they know is a waste of time.

How do you know this is the case?

I remember seeing a programme, quite a few years ago, can't remember the name of it, could have been something like Dispatches. It was about the NHS and in particular administrators who were tasked with invoicing foreign nationals for procedures they'd had here on the NHS. I remember the person who was in charge of all of this, saying it was a futile exercise, that never achieved its objective.

Something was uttered along the lines of "going through the motions to tick the boxes"

How do explain away waiting list.

Perhaps you’ve cracked the answer.

We all sign up as foreign nationals and get our operation done during our holidays!

What tripe.

I was taken ill in Françe in 2018, after the event I paid for the ambulance, blood tests and prescriptions, paid the MT - GP €25 for each visit. Most of the costs were claimed back on my EHIC, we also had full travel insurance for the 8 months we were there, it cost about £300.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2084232/health-tourists-leave-our

So the lady from Nigeria, travelling to the USA to give birth to triplets, must have had every intention of paying the USA, (You cant get a band aid there without showing proof of a means to pay.).So why didn’t she pay here?
I watched an interview where she said no one from the NHS, approach her for payment.
Why on earth would you risk your life & that of your unborn child, 3 in her case, travelling first to the USA, so she says! Then on to Britain.
Then watching the husband of Fiona Philips, stating that once you are diagnosed with Alzheimer’s (1 in 3 will get it) that there is hardly any funding going towards Alzheimer’s, (but plenty for imo) going to towards tourist health. Crazy.

panorama programme from 5 years ago but still very relevant

youtu.be/lRDqqY1bXJA?feature=shared

TerriBull

LizzieDrip

petra

The £200 million is only for invoices issued. The majority of hospitals don’t issue an invoice as they know is a waste of time.

How do you know this is the case?

I remember seeing a programme, quite a few years ago, can't remember the name of it, could have been something like Dispatches. It was about the NHS and in particular administrators who were tasked with invoicing foreign nationals for procedures they'd had here on the NHS. I remember the person who was in charge of all of this, saying it was a futile exercise, that never achieved its objective.

Lizziedrip
By listening to an NHS representative on Radio 4 yesterday.