200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists

I’m inclining more and more to having ID cards here.

mokryna

Allira Would people from overseas be treated for long-term conditions or just in dire emergencies, bearing in mind how difficult it is to get a GP appointment here or the fact that the wait in A&E can be many hours?
My NHS DD told me once that they had to telephone the daughter, in a country outside the EU, that the NHS was discharging her mother, after being treated for a slight street accident but to be aware of her mother’s cancer, which they couldn’t treat.
It was thought that the ‘accident’ was a means to get treated.

Interesting mokryna

ID cards which link to your NHS number would be ideal. However, I’d be waiting for the new Gransnet thread
‘200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists with forged ID cards’

Yes to identity cards.
And maybe to a sort of NHS card, then alarm bells would ring if say a person, not in the system, rocked up at 36 weeks plus to deliver a baby.

Casdon

ID cards which link to your NHS number would be ideal. However, I’d be waiting for the new Gransnet thread
‘200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists with forged ID cards’

Crossed Post 👍

It will be unpleasant, masieD, when the national health falls completely, there will be no treatment for you or anyone else for that matter😩

“£200 million is a small black hole in the scheme of things”

It is possibly just the tip of the iceberg and in any case it should not be ignored. I was always taught to take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves.
My daughter had her baby in a central London hospital and there were so many women from other countries in the maternity ward with a few needing interpreters, another cost to the NHS

Casdon

ID cards which link to your NHS number would be ideal. However, I’d be waiting for the new Gransnet thread
‘200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists with forged ID cards’

Absolutely Casdon. I think the idea of an NHS link is what gives me the feeling of inevitability.

If you include fingerprints on an ID card, they are very hard to forge.
Our French medical cards do not have them, but it would still be very hard to forge all the data required. We have recently been allowed to have them on our phones as well as the original green plastic cards. They are used by all hospitals, doctors, physiotherapists, pharmacists.etc.

Reference has been made to research into the causes of diseases.
I understand that a significant percentage of research budgets is from charity donations, and also research is undertaken by pharmaceutical companies at their own expense.
Any such company must surely be highly motivated to find some drug which will halt or slow the progress of dementia. It would reap huge financial rewards for them.
Any NHS budget for research is just a part of the story.

Hang on a minute why should we have ID cards, I’ve paid for a passport & I’ve paid for a drivers license, I have also other photo id. Who would pay for these cards?
Why can’t they process these irregular people, take their photos & fingerprints, give them some sort of ID!

the hospitals I've worked in do charge foreign nationals, as in the instance of the Nigerian mother of triplets (I think I'd have been tempted to say, hop along to cash office & get the bill settled, then we can discharge the babies!).
I think most of them pay, the issue making it difficult is that for most things you don't know what the bill will be until treatment's finished so you can't bill until discharge so the opportunities to abscond are there to be taken & recovery is difficult once they're abroad.
I believe there are, or were, maternity health tourists & scams that set them up with NHS numbers and a local address in order to claim free care. I have no evidence for this but it was believed to be happening - midwives go out to the address to check out mum & baby only to be told "Oh they don't live here they've gone back to ---".It's more difficult to stop in places like London where people move around more & it's quite usual for someone to present for antenatal care late in pregnancy having just moved to the area.
We don't have a good reputation for maternity in england at the moment so maybe this will encourage scammers to prefer another country to scam.

Mt61

Hang on a minute why should we have ID cards, I’ve paid for a passport & I’ve paid for a drivers license, I have also other photo id. Who would pay for these cards?
Why can’t they process these irregular people, take their photos & fingerprints, give them some sort of ID!

There are lots of issues with that proposal
Not everybody who is a UK citizen has a passport
Passports don’t contain an NHS number or your home address, and are not amended if you move house in the 10 year issue period - I presume ID cards are linked?
Passports don’t contain a fingerprint
How would you know who was ‘irregular’ if they said they didn’t have a passport

Mt61
Hang on a minute why should we have ID cards, I’ve paid for a passport & I’ve paid for a drivers license, I have also other photo id.
Because a lot of people think like you, illegals like the UK. Easy to find work etc.

My point is I have more than enough ID, I will only carry ID if I am picking up a parcel. I won’t carry all that info on me as a regular thing, as I wouldn’t want to loose it, or for to fall into the wrong hands. I don’t think I need any more ID.
Most people in the uk have some form of ID, those that don’t, well I think that’s rather up to them to enquire about getting some.

Mt61

My point is I have more than enough ID, I will only carry ID if I am picking up a parcel. I won’t carry all that info on me as a regular thing, as I wouldn’t want to loose it, or for to fall into the wrong hands. I don’t think I need any more ID.
Most people in the uk have some form of ID, those that don’t, well I think that’s rather up to them to enquire about getting some.

The issue is that eligibility for NHS care is based on being ordinarily resident, not nationality. People can have a British passport without living in the UK.

Good point Growstuff.

I'm afraid my liking for ID cards connected to NHS may be entirely selfish. I would like someone, should I one day be found in a collapsed heap or wandering, to be able to treat me and let loved ones know. I'm sure they would have additionally uses though.

Oh I give up 🤦‍♀️ my point is I pay for enough ID, on top of all my other out goings, I don’t want to have pay for even more! If the government wants us to have ID, are they going to foot the bill? If they do, then I don’t object, it will just be locked away with my other forms of ID.

About 10 years ago I was in the UK and had to go to emergency at the local hospital. They knew I was Australian but said there were too many forms to fill out so they just put me down as a local. Fair enough and very nice of them.

I assume we have a reciprocal arrangement with Australia nanna.

I think the carte d'identité is free in France. Mamie? You only pay if you lose it and need a replacement.

escaped

I think the carte d'identité is free in France. Mamie? You only pay if you lose it and need a replacement.

Yes absolutely. Our permanent residence cards are also free. Identity cards are renewable locally. That is also the case in Spain. My grandchildren have identity cards, but needed passports to go to England. They were produced at the Town Hall in 30 minutes.

This is yet another reason why we need identity cards. When is any government going to have the guts to introduce them?

Just to add, we were staying at BiL’s place in France when a fellow guest was taken ill in the night. He was taken to hospital in Dijon soon afterwards, where we visited him the next morning. He was unconscious and the first thing the senior nurse asked me was whether he had insurance. Which he did - I had waited with him until the ‘pompiers’ arrived and he’d indicated where his paperwork was.

It doesn't help when UK NHS hospitals' wording is so woolly.

When you arrive at * Hospital, you may be asked to complete a form and provide us with documents to prove that you are ordinarily resident in the UK.
...... if we can be bothered!

escaped

I think the carte d'identité is free in France. Mamie? You only pay if you lose it and need a replacement.

There was a short period when NHS cards were issued - I would guess in the early 2000s, but I'm not sure. I had one and I'm sure I didn't pay for it. They eventually withdrew the scheme, I would guess that doing it as you suggest the French do escaped, would be acceptable to the majority.

As time has passed and people have got used to using cards for many things, scepticism about ID cards has subsided although their is still some opposition to them.