Brexit. We never stood a chance. The elites were against it.

growstuff

fancythat

MaizieD

M0nica

MaizieD

They were in government, MOnica. Doesn't that make them 'elite'?

Look who backed them. Billionaire media owners, big business owners...

The elite are the backers, those named are just glove puppets with those behind them manipulating them with their hands up their ***

Ah, those 'elites' that the Leave campaigners were telling everyone were running the country and that leaving the EU would put paid to their games?

Or were those different 'elites'?

I get really confused about these 'elites'...

People need to think World.

Not just Country. Or just EU.

World elites.

You forgot extra-terrestrial elites!

You are all wrong it is the massive hoax put out by MAGA.

“Drown the swamp”

It has been taken up by Trumps admirers like Farage etc.

The bus banners were not entirely unreasonable or untrue, I read Lord David Owen's thoughts on this at the time.
The problem lay in the fact that all the services were irreparably run down by the Tories.

Never voted for it,worst thing we ever did! I hope the people that did vote for it,and believed the lies on the bus,are happy!

Growstuff You've missed the point. Our British waters have been reclaimed, our fisherman can fish freely. Doubt we have many Italian fishermen here.

You don’t need to be a bent statistician or even a politician, to be able to tell that Brexit was a narrow-minded failure that helped set the country at odds with each other. A well tried and tested method.

I can't remember which French official it was,
but he later stated, WithBritainout of Europe, who is to be our partner? Germany is not the same.
I think this is why we are now seeing more rapprochement occurring, but the French need to be careful not to make it all take and little give in return. Where all the other 25, or is it 26, members fit in, I have no idea.

I would have voted yes to a federal Europe where every country had the same health service, the same retirement age, and contributed similarly, but that was never going to happen. Perfect harmony and compliance isn't possible with so many different countries, so to me it made sense for Britain to be independent and to be able to make its own decisions. For me, it had nothing, nothing to do with immigration or foreigners taking jobs, though many votes were primarily driven by this desire I agree.

fancythat

MaizieD

M0nica

MaizieD

They were in government, MOnica. Doesn't that make them 'elite'?

Look who backed them. Billionaire media owners, big business owners...

The elite are the backers, those named are just glove puppets with those behind them manipulating them with their hands up their ***

Ah, those 'elites' that the Leave campaigners were telling everyone were running the country and that leaving the EU would put paid to their games?

Or were those different 'elites'?

I get really confused about these 'elites'...

People need to think World.

Not just Country. Or just EU.

World elites.

You forgot extra-terrestrial elites!

Diplomat

So LizzieDrip here how our lives have improved-
We are free to make our own decisions
The fish in British waters belong to us
We did not have to wait for some EU permission to get our Covid vaccination (although they did try to delay some)
I wonder how much we're saving by not having to pay them vast amounts of money every month
I could go on but I am proud of this country and that we have our independence which so many sacrificed their lives for in two world wars. Our sovereignty, flag, currency, land and freedom is for their sacrifice.

Great! Next time I eat over-priced fish and chips (paid for in £d - which was never threatened), I'll remember to wave a union flag, kiss a picture of the king and play a recording of Vera Lynn - I'm sure that will make me feel better about what's going on in this country!

PS. It's such a shame my local chippie is owned by Italians.

MaizieD

M0nica

MaizieD

They were in government, MOnica. Doesn't that make them 'elite'?

Look who backed them. Billionaire media owners, big business owners...

The elite are the backers, those named are just glove puppets with those behind them manipulating them with their hands up their ***

Ah, those 'elites' that the Leave campaigners were telling everyone were running the country and that leaving the EU would put paid to their games?

Or were those different 'elites'?

I get really confused about these 'elites'...

People need to think World.

Not just Country. Or just EU.

World elites.

petra

fancythat

Right. I am off to change my name to Two Replies if I Choose.

That doesn’t make sense 🤷‍♀️

It doesnt look like I can change names, as was on this site about 8 years ago, for about 6 months, with a different name.

I dont think I can have more than the two names.

So I will informally call myself Two Replies if I Choose.

Yes, it is confusing Maizie. It's like watching the squabbling of medieval warlords. Accusing "elites" was a tactic used in 1930s Germany and at other times to persuade the voters that one group of elites was on their side. They then hid under the a cloak of democracy to seize power from a rival group.

The briefing against the ECHR is part of that because it's the last resort when a government has gone rogue. Churchill knew that, which was why he was such a big supporter.

M0nica

MaizieD

They were in government, MOnica. Doesn't that make them 'elite'?

Look who backed them. Billionaire media owners, big business owners...

The elite are the backers, those named are just glove puppets with those behind them manipulating them with their hands up their ***

Ah, those 'elites' that the Leave campaigners were telling everyone were running the country and that leaving the EU would put paid to their games?

Or were those different 'elites'?

I get really confused about these 'elites'...

fancythat

Right. I am off to change my name to Two Replies if I Choose.

That doesn’t make sense 🤷‍♀️

So LizzieDrip here how our lives have improved-
We are free to make our own decisions
The fish in British waters belong to us
We did not have to wait for some EU permission to get our Covid vaccination (although they did try to delay some)
I wonder how much we're saving by not having to pay them vast amounts of money every month
I could go on but I am proud of this country and that we have our independence which so many sacrificed their lives for in two world wars. Our sovereignty, flag, currency, land and freedom is for their sacrifice.

MaizieD

They were in government, MOnica. Doesn't that make them 'elite'?

Look who backed them. Billionaire media owners, big business owners...

The elite are the backers, those named are just glove puppets with those behind them manipulating them with their hands up their *

Right. I am off to change my name to Two Replies if I Choose.

fancythat

Not properly looked into it.
The bits I dont like!

Which bits don't you like?

fancythat

To growstuff

A I says this. Good enough for me.
I never see the point, on a forum like this, to go into legal deatils. What on earth would be the point.

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) is sometimes criticized for perceived limitations on national sovereignty, particularly in areas like immigration and criminal justice. Some argue that the ECHR, and the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), can overrule national laws and interfere with democratically decided policies

AI isn't that good, is it? It doesn't answer the question about which specific parts you'd change. "Sometimes criticized for perceived* and some argue doesn't answer that. They're allegations, nothing else.

To growstuff

A I says this. Good enough for me.
I never see the point, on a forum like this, to go into legal deatils. What on earth would be the point.

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) is sometimes criticized for perceived limitations on national sovereignty, particularly in areas like immigration and criminal justice. Some argue that the ECHR, and the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), can overrule national laws and interfere with democratically decided policies

So, we gained our 'freedom' through BREXIT, and now Farage fans would wish to surrender that freedom to a conman whose financial support comes mainly from offshore financial interests? Google 'Good Law Project the offshore bonanza'.

That was to growstuff.

Not properly looked into it.
The bits I dont like!

They were in government, MOnica. Doesn't that make them 'elite'?

Look who backed them. Billionaire media owners, big business owners...

fancythat

growstuff

fancythat

Maremia

Yes, let's be like Belarus and Russia and leave the ECHR, because those countries sure do look after the human rights of their citizens. Don't they?

I would like to think we could manage to leave the ECHR, without turning into them!

I would like to think all sorts of things ...

But it doesn't mean they'll happen.

The ECHR protects ordinary citizens from its own governments. Do you really want to give up that kind of protection?

PS. It has nothing to do with EU, so why is it relevant ti this thread?

Nothing to stop us writing hopefully the parts we like.

Loads of Uk laws get changed every single day.

Which parts would you leave out?

Elites nowadays are the billionaires. Not the millionaires.

The financiers of the world. Not Uk leaders!

And groups such as Bank for International settlements, Central Banks, IMF, UN, IPCC, World Bank, WHO, Global corporations.
Other places/groups we barely hear of, such as CFR, Club of Rome, Chatham House, Rockefellers.

Think World. Not just a Country or individual.