Brexit. We never stood a chance. The elites were against it.

Going over the arguments for and against Brexit is past its sell-by date, I agree.

However, if, as alleged, organisations such as the WEC have been manipulating data more recently, for whatever reason, surely that is of significance, especially if it is to the detriment of the UK and its economy?

Is Schwab a charlatan, is the WEC a harmful influence on world affairs, are these the questions we should be asking?

Allira

Yes, it's quite frightening.
Is it worse now they're not besties any more?

I agree. I'm no psychologist, so don't really know for sure what motivates Musk (and some of his cronies), but it wouldn't surprise me if one of the big players (Putin?) susses out how to get round him. It was frightening that he can interfere in UK politics and give Tommy Robinson any support.

I think this going over the arguments for Brexit is way past its sell by date.

It is crystal clear to a big majority in the U.K. now as well as most countries in the world (with the exception of Trump) that the decision to leave was one of the daftest the U.K. has ever made, and the worlds economic and political situation makes closer working with Europe the only sensible way forward.

Yes, it's quite frightening.
Is it worse now they're not besties any more?

Allira

petra

LizzieDrip

Ok FGT.

I’m all ears - please tell me how the UK, and the lives of ordinary citizens, have actually benefitted from Brexit.

We were never meant to prosper.
Mr Schwab wanted the world to see us as a basket case.
Who’s going to invest their money in that 🤷‍♀️
That’s the power that these oxygen thieves have. I include the Bilderberg group in that description.

Governments think they are in charge but they are not. It's the extremely wealthy and groups like this which run the world.

It's quite sinister, in fact.

More than sinister when the richest man in the world is invited by the president of the richest country in the world to have a government role - and the UK eve apes some of his ideas.

The UK on its own can do almost nothing about that. If we are to have any chance at all, we need to make collaborative alliances.

I don't think Starmer is sacrificing all things British, but he's pragmatic. He knows that if the UK wants something from European countries, the UK has to give something back.

petra

LizzieDrip

Ok FGT.

I’m all ears - please tell me how the UK, and the lives of ordinary citizens, have actually benefitted from Brexit.

We were never meant to prosper.
Mr Schwab wanted the world to see us as a basket case.
Who’s going to invest their money in that 🤷‍♀️
That’s the power that these oxygen thieves have. I include the Bilderberg group in that description.

Governments think they are in charge but they are not. It's the extremely wealthy and groups like this which run the world.

It's quite sinister, in fact.

eazybee

My wish would be to leave the European Convention and Court of Human Rights, as I do not believe in foreign courts ove- ruling our courts. I would wish also not to sacrifice our fishing industry to the greed of the French.
Starmer seems prepared to sacrifice anything British to appease Europe, yet he does not strike me as a Europhile, simply a self-server.

The European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU. It protects UK citizens against its own government. It's not "foreign", but is the last legal protection an individual has if domestic courts fail to provide justice, which they sometimes do.

I expect you know its history. Churchill was one of the leading lights behind a court whose purpose was to protect citizens from their own government. He was well aware that the German state before 1945 used its own laws to persecute its own citizens.

I'm not being rude or refusing to reply, I'd love to carry on discussing, but I'm doing post holiday washing and now need to go shopping (for Muesli!) or we'll have nothing to eat this week.

My wish would be to leave the European Convention and Court of Human Rights, as I do not believe in foreign courts ove- ruling our courts. I would wish also not to sacrifice our fishing industry to the greed of the French.
Starmer seems prepared to sacrifice anything British to appease Europe, yet he does not strike me as a Europhile, simply a self-server.

MayBee70

It never stood a chance because the vote leave campaign was based on lies and misinformation [eg did anyone mention Ireland at the time??].

Er yes! Plenty of people mentioned Ireland, but I don't remember any answers.

escaped

OK thank you MaizieD.

Check out how our professional services have gone up significanctly Brexit which makes up for the fact that our manufactured goods have gone down. Its swings and roundabouts, I agree some losses, but not all a downward spiral. We haven't taken the setback lying down.

I suspect that the country was already on a trajectory to increase professional services to replace our manufacturing base. I thought one of the benefits of Brexit was supposed to be that manufacturing would increase and the professional services (provided by the graduate Prosecco guzzling Muesli munchers living in Islington) would become less important.

It never stood a chance because the vote leave campaign was based on lies and misinformation [eg did anyone mention Ireland at the time??].

FriedGreenTomatoes2

“The World Economic Forum (WEF) has been accused of rigging research to make Brexit look like a failure.

Klaus Schwab, the face of the Davos conference in Switzerland for years, allegedly intervened in the WEF’s annual Global Competitiveness Report, which ranks countries on productivity and long-term prosperity.

In the 2017/2018 report, the UK’s ranking improved from seventh to fourth after a change in methodology.

But Mr Schwab, 87, wrote to staff that the UK “must not see any improvement”, as otherwise it would be “exploited by the Brexit camp”.

The final report published in 2017 showed the UK had dropped one place to eighth.”

Well well. Colour me surprised. Not.

Do you have a link for this report FGT?

The link to the Guardian article about Schwab posted by Allira doesn’t mention anything about Brexit.

I still don't know what we the country was supposed to "have a chance of"? (Sorry about the preposition at the end of the question.)

I spent a lot of time thinking about how to vote. I did think the EU was overly bureaucratic, probably wasted money and didn't always favour the UK in its decisions.

However, I looked at the alternatives. I tried to find out what the Leave campaigners were actually promising. It became quite obvious their "promises" were pie-in-the-sky. They weren't even consistent and it became clear that they said what they did to win votes, but had no properly formulated plans.

I couldn't vote to leave on that basis. It would be like jumping off a cliff to escape a bad situation (especially when the situation wasn't really that bad).

There will always be people like Schwab in the world. The challenge we have as a country is how to take them on. IMO it's ludicrous to think that a post-colonial country like the UK with few natural resources, could ever be a match on its own.

The evidence doesn't need rigging: Brexit is a failure. A considerable majority would now prefer it hadn't happened. So-called Global Britain was a figment of Leavers' imaginations egged on by Farage and Johnson.

OK thank you MaizieD.

Check out how our professional services have gone up significanctly Brexit which makes up for the fact that our manufactured goods have gone down. Its swings and roundabouts, I agree some losses, but not all a downward spiral. We haven't taken the setback lying down.

escaped

MaizieD

I think we've done pretty well to overcome some of the hurdles which inevitably came our way due to Brexit.

I realise that you'll probably refuse to answer this, escaped, but what hurdles have we overcome?

That's a bit rude, considering that I am one poster on here who is usually very happy to answer when asked or challenged.

It is, indeed rude. I do apologise. I got you mixed up with another poster.

But what hurdles do you think we've overcome?

Also, what does a report from 2017-18 have to do with outcomes of Brexit?

JudyBloom

LizzieDrip, Brexit was never properly implemented, if it had been we wouldn't be in the mess we are in, corruption and betrayal have been rife.

What is the evidence for this corruption and betrayal?

I could make up all kinds of nonsense about how the Brexit referendum was a cheat and betraayal and that corruption was rife and the result other thaan it should be, but without the evidence to prove the point I am but a sounding brass or tinkling cymbal.

So Judybloom please can we have the evidence of this corruption and betrayal. Prroper attested evidence not vague accusations.

Am I missing a reference to Brexit in the Guardian article?
My eyes are very tired, but I can only see references to things like massages and luxury travel, plus this:
"The letter also accused Schwab of manipulating the WEF global competitiveness report in order to curry favour with certain governments. The publication ranks countries based on criteria such as education, infrastructure, labour market and health systems, and is a point of reference for the annual Davos meeting."
Can somebody help me out with the source for the Brexit comments?
FGT?

Hurdles overcome - I was going to mention resourcing alternatives, but won't bother.

MaizieD

^I think we've done pretty well to overcome some of the hurdles which inevitably came our way due to Brexit.^

I realise that you'll probably refuse to answer this, escaped, but what hurdles have we overcome?

That's a bit rude, considering that I am one poster on here who is usually very happy to answer when asked or challenged.

I think we've done pretty well to overcome some of the hurdles which inevitably came our way due to Brexit.

I realise that you'll probably refuse to answer this, escaped, but what hurdles have we overcome?

Since Brexit was never defined in any way, shape or form - how could it be implemented or not?

We were told that we would remain in Single Market and Customs Union, even!