‘Oh Jeremy Corbyn’ 🎵 🎶 and Zarah Sultana have confirmed the launch of their new political party today!

MaizieD

I have to agree with you, Eloethan.

Corbyn is earnestly principled (read Diane Abbot's account of their affair ) and not at all pragmatic. Which makes him inspiring but unfortunately he's a very poor politician. A leader needs to be god at politics.

Maizie In your opinion. Many more of us see this man as an untrustworthy blithering idiot who couldn't orgainise a p*ss-up in a brewery.

A man who did more to reduce the Labour party to its current state of incompetence that lead them to think that Keir Starmer had leadership qualities resulting in the current failure of government in this country.

Many of us thought no government culd be more incompetent than the last Conservative government. How wrong we were.

As Starmer has been LP leader since 2020 I don't think you can lay the LP's current state of incompetence at Corbyn's door.

It's hands are tied by fear, fear of the wealthy, fear of Reform and it has nailed its colours firmly to the mast of big business, finance and neoliberal economic policy. The sooner it's gone, the better. At least Farage isn't pretending to be anything but a fascist...

I’m not a fan of Keir Starmer but I hesitate to say that this government is more incompetent than the last Conservative government Monica. That would be difficult for any government to match, let alone exceed, and that is without the levels of corruption, dishonesty and greed which I think have been unmatched in my lifetime. But Starmer supporters who want a centre ground, neither one thing nor the other Labour Party will always use Jeremy Corbyn as a scapegoat for any failures of this current government. (That’s not aimed at you Monica, I’m not even sure whether or not you are a Labour or Starmer supporter).

Personally competent or not, Corbyn's new party will split the Labour vote and let Farage's party in. A disaster for which Corbyn will be responsible.

Owen Jones is so excited about Corbyn’s party !

As Starmer has been LP leader since 2020 I don't think you can lay the LP's current state of incompetence at Corbyn's door.

Oh, but you can, it influenced which person was chosen to succeed him - the person who is now the Prime Minister.

It also influenced those who are now MPs. Many more able people, withdrew from politics and the Labour party because of their experience of the way the relatively small extreme left wing element in the party has wagged the Labour dog, to its disadvantage.

Something that the Conservatives always avoided doing until recently, and we have seen the deleterious effect that has had on that party as well.

Extremists destroy things

But the current leader is not at all left wing. I know that he said that he was left wing in order to secure the leadership but he is pretty much continuing with Conservative economic policy.

Reform was gaining ground well before this new party was announced. The success of Reform can be laid squarely at Starmer's door I believe.

Ilovecheese

But the current leader is not at all left wing. I know that he said that he was left wing in order to secure the leadership but he is pretty much continuing with Conservative economic policy.

Reform was gaining ground well before this new party was announced. The success of Reform can be laid squarely at Starmer's door I believe.

That’s illogical, given that it was the Tories who lost seats to Reform at the last election, not Labour?

Casdon

Ilovecheese

But the current leader is not at all left wing. I know that he said that he was left wing in order to secure the leadership but he is pretty much continuing with Conservative economic policy.

Reform was gaining ground well before this new party was announced. The success of Reform can be laid squarely at Starmer's door I believe.

That’s illogical, given that it was the Tories who lost seats to Reform at the last election, not Labour?

But Labour isn't doing anything to counter Reform. So far they have just been attempting to 'outReform' them. Taking Labour much further to the right than many labour voters find acceptable.

I think that is what is informing Ilovecheese's comment.

Anniebach

Owen Jones is so excited about Corbyn’s party !

Even if I didn't know anything about Jeremy Corbyn or his new party that would be enough to put me right off! An Owen Jones endorsement is a red flag warning any time.

An example of "attempting to out-Reform Reform" is the "an island of strangers" comment, which Starmer then apologised for. How can people have trust in him when he makes a statement and then, only when it causes a furore, realising he has made a tactical error, apologises for it?

I am not bashing Labour as I had been a member for many years and believe that the party achieved many good things during the times it was in power. I think the party now has an enormous mountain to climb. They will upset different people with almost every decision they make and it seems unfair because the chaos has not been their doing.

I think if they had not treated Corbyn so badly I would still be a member of the party, but I was so disappointed that they joined in with the attack dogs against Corbyn, rather than target the greed, inefficiency and corruption of the Conservative Party.

MaizieD

Casdon

Ilovecheese

But the current leader is not at all left wing. I know that he said that he was left wing in order to secure the leadership but he is pretty much continuing with Conservative economic policy.

Reform was gaining ground well before this new party was announced. The success of Reform can be laid squarely at Starmer's door I believe.

That’s illogical, given that it was the Tories who lost seats to Reform at the last election, not Labour?

But Labour isn't doing anything to counter Reform. So far they have just been attempting to 'outReform' them. Taking Labour much further to the right than many labour voters find acceptable.

I think that is what is informing Ilovecheese's comment.

I appreciate that, but what she posted was inaccurate.

Grantanow

Personally competent or not, Corbyn's new party will split the Labour vote and let Farage's party in. A disaster for which Corbyn will be responsible.

Perhaps Keir Starmer would have been wiser to keep Jeremy Corbyn in the party and lead a Labour Party that truly was a ‘broad church’. If anyone has split the Labour vote it is Starmer himself.

As Tony Benn said ‘the Labour Party has never been a socialist party, but it’s always had socialists in it’. There is strength in a range of views. Perhaps Starmer just hasn’t been in politics long enough to learn from the past.

I appreciate that, but what she posted was inaccurate.

I suppose 'inaccurate' depends on how you look at it. I don't think Reform's 'success' in the 2024 GE had much to do with Labour's policies.

So I'd kind of agree with you there, but I think that Reform's success in the local government elections this year were partially driven by Labour's startling failure to propose/implement anything which would make any improvement to 'ordinary' people's lives. Labour just insistently promised them more hardship.

You may think I'm being unfair in the light of attempts to enumerate Labour's 'achievements' over the past year, but Labour itself isn't shouting about them and their economic 'austerity' policy (we can't afford this and we can't afford that and people will have to endure a bit of hardship before it gets better) doesn't produce the instant 'change' that people were hoping for.

It's no good promising improvement in 2 or 3 (or 20) years time. Something big has to happen NOW. But it isn't...

I don’t disagree with what you’ve said MaizieD, I was just pointing out that as your first sentence confirmed, the success of Reform cannot be, as Ilovecheese put it, ‘laid squarely at Starmer’s door’.

I do think that we will see a different approach from the government by next spring, I’m not expecting major changes before that.

Starmer has been trying to attract Reform voters, his "island of strangers" speech, as mentioned by Eleothan being a prime example. This, and Rachel Reeves's trickledown economics policies is what has led more left leaning voters to move away from Labour, this was happening long before any new party was being formed.

I’m a Labour Party member. I voted for Starmer. I’m pleased with our yiung Labour MP. I’m stunned by how dreadful the comms team is. The govt is doing some good things that you’d expect from a Labour govt yet they’re making such a mess in a number of ways, that negatives dominate the headlines

I don’t see Starmer as responsible for the success of Reform. Give Farage his due, he’s an effective populist communicator, something Starmer isn’t sadly. The govt did inherit an absolute mess. There’s no doubt that the majority is now increasingly anxious about the impact and financial cost of the arrival of so many men seeking asylum. Starmer attempted to demonstrate his acceptance of that and intention to try and make changes. His speech was no doubt written for him, it’s surprising that he didn’t change the island of strangers to avoid winding up those of us who remember Enoch Powell and fear racism.
There’s some truth in the often repeated view, Labour didnt win, the Conservatives totally

Ilovecheese

But the current leader is not at all left wing. I know that he said that he was left wing in order to secure the leadership but he is pretty much continuing with Conservative economic policy.

Reform was gaining ground well before this new party was announced. The success of Reform can be laid squarely at Starmer's door I believe.

No, you cannot blame Stramer for Reform. Reform is a right wing party with policies that Labour would never espouse.

The growth of Reform is the result of all political parties only talkiing to the extremists in their parties and never listening to what the electorate is really saying - and means.

The growth of Reform is the result of all political parties only talkiing to the extremists in their parties and never listening to what the electorate is really saying - and means.

Who are the 'extremists' that the LP are talking to, MOnica?

Farage is listening to everything the electorate is saying, and promising almost everything they want.
Two big problems.
He has no practical solutions to to fulfil his promises, any more than the Conservatives had and Labour is now discovering. Sharp lawyers and ECHR defeat most objectives, and the present PM toadying to Europe and Trump alternately, whilst trying to play Ruthless Leader back home convinces no-one.

Farage is totally unable to work with anyone else. Watch his 'discussion' programmes with seasoned politicians, not to mention his own brief-lived MPs. They always end with him talking over his guests out and drowning them out.

Farage is listening to everything the electorate is saying

You have a point there.
He does seem to at least listen.
Personally, I cant say I feel at all listened to by Starmer and the Labour Party.
I seem to tune out the conservatives. Probably need to tune in again to see what they currently are saying.

MaizieD

^The growth of Reform is the result of all political parties only talkiing to the extremists in their parties and never listening to what the electorate is really saying - and means.^

Who are the 'extremists' that the LP are talking to, MOnica?

In the past Corbyn and his cronies, and all those people who were once in Labour and are now flocking to his new party.

The only talking that Starmer has done to supporters of the policies of Corbyn, is to tell them that the door is open for them to leave.
So they did.

I'm slightly puzzled by MOnica's response, too...