Israel Committing War Crimes - Israel - Gaza Part 4

Are Muslims feeling shame following the attack by Hamas on
7th October 2023.
The O/P refers to Israel and Hamas, no mention of Gaza

Allira

^This thread isnt about whether Victoria Starmer has somehow "influenced" todays cabinet decision^

Threads meander; posters cannot control threads but if you want to get it back on track then trying to find out what is really happening and what are lies being perpetrated by Israel or Hamas might be helpful.

Yes, Lady Starmer must be finding the present situation difficult.
Why this new fashion of wheeling out wives? Is it productive?

Not really, Allira, when children are dying of malnutrition.
I think that the Starmers - whether we like/agree with them, are a close and loving team, but they have decided together that she isnt going to be some kind of "Second Lady', but carry on being an NHS occupational health worker. She trained as a solicitor by wanted to do caring work.

Certainly not wheeled out for anything but sometimes being seen together, and completely off track as regards the intentions of this thread

Which I understand to be discussions broadly around how we can resolve the absolutely appalling suffering of the now close to starvation on a large scale of the Gazan peoples in a realistic way, and the taking of their lands (because they have never been a "State"- some excuse)

And how we can go about doing just that whilst supporting Jewish people in Israel and world wide to be as free of anti semitism as is possible

How we can as individuals "make a difference".

However, as long as Netanyahu and his cabinet is in power, there is little chance of achieving either aim. This is why I like Starmers' "terms and conditions" approach.

As UK citizens, there is a legacy particular to us, for we were "in charge" of Palestine, which was a Protectorate under our much vaunted "Empire

Yes, we handed over a chunk of Palestine to one group of peoples as a State - without giving the remaining mostly Arab inhabitants the guarantee of Statehood or even some kind of defined and protected status.

Shame on us, it just makes it particularly needful and proper to try and repair matters with our actions now. However small what we do it - send emails, talk to people, attend demonstrations if we can and think it the right thing to do.

And it is heartening that many of our Uk Jewish citizens also join these protests.

Jeremy Bowen again saying that the Israelis seem to be doubling down on their illegal annexation plans, also, the UK's shift in stance is from putting 'benchmarks' on the Paletinians to know putting 'benchmarks' on the Israeli side, and that the Israelis are not best pleased.

Devorgilla

I heard an interviewee last week give a very sane and common sense view of the situation. I didn't catch his name but I think he was ex military and used to operating in this type of field. His take on the supply of aid was that you need a surplus of military to control the crowds and enable a controlled allocation of aid so everyone received something. That is clearly not possible in this situation. I have yet to see an orderly queue for aid. He also said he believed that Hamas were likely to be acquiring some of the aid and squirrelling it away. People who were fortunate enough to get some of it, mostly fit young men, were likely to be attacked by gangs with guns for the aid. He said there was hunger in Gaza but it was likely to be the old, the disabled, the sick, the orphans, the widows etc who could not fend for themselves and for whom no-one was looking out. He ended by saying that in war situations like this the last people to starve would be the military and the fighters. They are always fed first because they are needed to fight. I think it is useful to consider in whose interests it is to keep the population hungry. Who benefits most in terms of international perception?

I think that’s a correct analysis of the situation.Not everyone in Gaza is going hungry that’s for sure and it will be those who most need help that don’t get it.Add to that the aid being taken and sold in the market by Gazans to Gazans.

Quote Whitewavemark2 Tue 29-Jul-25 20:47:00
I am responding to annies comments about me then will leave the thread as I am not happy at the way it is being manipulated.

annie

Today I listened to two prominent Israelis - one an ex-PM and another a doctor and Israeli intellectual.

Both were asked what they thought about Israeli actions in Gaza.

Both replied with one word.

Shame.

That is what I instinctively echoed. I do however agree that I have absolutely no idea, and probably should not have posted the word “shame”. But I am convinced that those two Israeli are amongst millions of other Jews world wide who feel the same.

You judged the thoughts of the PM wife and all Jews on how
two Jews expressed their feelings?

Following your thinking, Hamas said they want to kill all Jews
Hamas are Muslim, they speak for all Muslims

This thread isnt about whether Victoria Starmer has somehow "influenced" todays cabinet decision

Threads meander; posters cannot control threads but if you want to get it back on track then trying to find out what is really happening and what are lies being perpetrated by Israel or Hamas might be helpful.

Yes, Lady Starmer must be finding the present situation difficult.
Why this new fashion of wheeling out wives? Is it productive?

I heard an interviewee last week give a very sane and common sense view of the situation. I didn't catch his name but I think he was ex military and used to operating in this type of field. His take on the supply of aid was that you need a surplus of military to control the crowds and enable a controlled allocation of aid so everyone received something. That is clearly not possible in this situation. I have yet to see an orderly queue for aid. He also said he believed that Hamas were likely to be acquiring some of the aid and squirrelling it away. People who were fortunate enough to get some of it, mostly fit young men, were likely to be attacked by gangs with guns for the aid. He said there was hunger in Gaza but it was likely to be the old, the disabled, the sick, the orphans, the widows etc who could not fend for themselves and for whom no-one was looking out. He ended by saying that in war situations like this the last people to starve would be the military and the fighters. They are always fed first because they are needed to fight. I think it is useful to consider in whose interests it is to keep the population hungry. Who benefits most in terms of international perception?

This thread isnt about whether Victoria Starmer has somehow "influenced" todays cabinet decision

I never said that or intimated as such Wyllow so please don’t try to put words in my mouth. I merely wondered, as Starmer’s wife, how she might be feeling tonight is all. Not even ‘gossip’ so don’t try to diss my musing and refer me to ‘Chat’ thank you very much - insinuating I leave this thread to the grown ups. What tosh! See my many other salient comments. I can post on here if I choose.

Ignore me by all means but don’t you start monitoring a thread. It’s not appreciated.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I am responding to annies comments about me then will leave the thread as I am not happy at the way it is being manipulated.

annie

Today I listened to two prominent Israelis - one an ex-PM and another a doctor and Israeli intellectual.

Both were asked what they thought about Israeli actions in Gaza.

Both replied with one word.

Shame.

That is what I instinctively echoed. I do however agree that I have absolutely no idea, and probably should not have posted the word “shame”. But I am convinced that those two Israeli are amongst millions of other Jews world wide who feel the same.

Ask Stephen Kapos, a holocaust survivor who makes the very direct and stark comparison between this genocide and 1940s Germany. And so so many others. Jews who are demonised by others, called self hating Jews and traitors, for saying 'NO, NOT in or name and religion'

Anniebach

I truly cannot WhiteWave believes Jews should be ashamed,
frightening words to hear

Why. Makes totaly sense. Many Germans were deeply ashamed in the 40s, quite rightly so. If a genocide is committed in your name and identity, you should quite rightly be ashamed. All my Jewish friends and so so many more, are, very deeply and sincerely ashamed. And many do make comparisons with 1940s Germany.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

A state with no agreed borders and a Palestinian territory that is divided into two separate tranches - and which just happen to sit slap bang in the middle of another state, Israel? How is that going to work?

That's for negotiators to work out and precisely why it's crucial that Palestine is recognised as a state. The most commonly accepted borders are those from 1967. Any changes to those borders must be clearly stated, negotiated and accepted.

The fact that the territory is divided isn't a massive problem in itself. Access arrangements could be negotiated, just as they were for West Germany and Berlin before 1989. The bigger problem is likely to be deciding on a constitution and system of government.

Brazil has quietly withdrawn from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) just days after formally backing South Africa’s genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice – a dual shift in policy that has sparked outrage among Jewish groups and Israeli officials.

Though the Brazilian government has not issued a public statement, the withdrawal was confirmed by pro-Palestinian Brazilian groups, domestic media, and Israel’s foreign ministry. According to reports in Metrópoles, Brazil’s foreign ministry notified the Israeli embassy in Brasília last week.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Well, well … the latest - US joins Israel in accusing Starmer of rewarding Hamas.

Fool Starmer. You really are. For a lawyer you make me ashamed and despair.

Starmer knew exactly how Trumpabd Israel would respond

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I wonder how Mrs. Starmer feels tonight? She’s Jewish.

Well this question is an interesting bit of what is really "political trivia"

We have known from the outset, and through the long battle to make some in the Labour Party take antisemitism more seriously, that she comes from a Jewish background.

I think her being Jewish helped raise awareness and most welcome too, given that anti-semitism, is now largely wiped out.

I've actually experienced those welcome changes from within the Party, at CLP meetings.

This thread isnt about whether Victoria Starmer has somehow "influenced" todays cabinet decision - how trite -it doesnt belong in "News and Politics" -its a sort of gossip

From the start the thread has had heartfelt testimony for posters about what is happening to the innocents in Gaza: death and malnutrition, being shot at trying to get food, razing of nearby all Gaza to the ground, the probably accurate description of events as genocidal, and the cry, "what can be done"

I'd suggest, as I said, its not without its "Gossip" value, and that maybe open a discussion on it in "Chat", to leave space to discuss todays news and how we still might take our concerns further?

Oxfam has pledged to retrain its fundraisers after video footage emerged showing charity workers allegedly knocking on the doors of Jewish residents and raising the subject of deaths in Gaza. The organisation said it would ensure staff understand the impact the conflict is having on the UK’s Jewish community.

Members of north west London Facebook community group ‘Inside Mill Hill and Edgware’ last week claim that a man and a woman representing the organisation had gone door-to-door questioning the significance of mezuzahs on Jewish homes.

In the long term, I support a two State solution. I do question the timing of these announcements in the midst of a full scale war. What happens in September when all these countries recognise Palestine but the war is still raging? How, and who, do you get round the table, to hammer out the finer points - or even the basic ones? Are the two governments prepared for the 'give and take' necessary to get the project off the ground and accept an 'uneasy' peace?

Well, well … the latest - US joins Israel in accusing Starmer of rewarding Hamas.

Fool Starmer. You really are. For a lawyer you make me ashamed and despair.

I too wish a workable solution could be found Iam. This horror is devastating. I cannot watch the news and see the images. I just can’t. However what Starmer has announced won’t change a thing. We know that. Spain & Ireland backed this in May joining many other countries. It makes not one spot of difference.

Hamas hang onto the hostages. Making a bad situation worse.

I can’t get my head around any of this.

Xposted fgt. I dint know how it will work but something has to

I truly cannot WhiteWave believes Jews should be ashamed,
frightening words to hear

FGT I didn’t think your comment had ulterior motive, my impression is your posts aren’t aimed at manipulation, you say what you think at the time.

I had a very difficult catch up with an old friend recently, I found his anti Starmer, anti Israel views offensive and at times, anti semitic. To stress I didn’t find your comment anti semitic. I’ve heard too much nonsense suggesting that Lady Starmer being Jewish contributes to Keir Starmer ‘s reluctance to recognise Palestine etc
It’s a terrible situation. I’ve watched ch4 news tonight. I used always to watch but I’m struggling to watch the starving children, their desperate children
One of my close friends had a cousin murdered on 7/10. I loathe what Netanyahu and the settlers are doing. I loathe terrorists
I believe only a two state solution can change this. I wish it had happened in 1948 but we are in 2025, we need a solution now. To live in the present not the past

A state with no agreed borders and a Palestinian territory that is divided into two separate tranches - and which just happen to sit slap bang in the middle of another state, Israel? How is that going to work?

Iam64

Bringin Victoria Starmer into this makes me feel uneasy. I’ve seen comments from those I see as far left, indicating Keir astsrmers “jewish family, here and in Israel “are dictating his decisions. The suggestion is he’s pro Israel anti Palestine

It’s offensive nonsense

I truly just wondered how she might be feeling tonight is all when I remembered she is Jewish. There was no ulterior motive to my thought I can assure you.