So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

Oreo

growstuff

Mamie

ronib

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

Ronib have you understood the historical consequences of Sykes Picot and Balfour? I really don't understand how you can have an opinion without knowledge of what happened after the First World War and the end of the Ottoman Empire.

It started before the First World War at the end of the 19th century.

ronib don’t allow all these going back into the past diatribes about the State of Israel put you off, they’re designed to do just that.
We are where we are and your above point is completely valid, they just don’t want to concede it.
Israel don’t have a choice but to rid Gaza of as many hamas as possible and this is entirely the fault of the hamas government in Gaza.

If they put their brains into gear, the Israelis would realise they're creating a recruitment ground for future opponents (under a Hamas banner or something else). There is no way they could control a hostile population of 2 million.

Everyone has bias, that is completely obvious.Some more than others.
I have said on here before that the settlers in the West Bank are awful and wrong and that the IDF like all armies sometimes make mistakes.Do I want Israel to get rid of all hamas, yes I do!
Do I want more aid to be sent in to Gaza, yes I do.
I don’t see a viable alternative to Israel taking over in Gaza at least for the short term if not forever.
It would be nice if posters could argue logically instead of merely wanting to score points.

I agree growstuff they appear to be totally blind to the long term ramifications of their actions.

growstuff
Once hamas invaded Israel and murdered over a thousand people and took two hundred hostages back into Gaza they set in motion a war on Gaza , there was no alternative for Israel.
If it makes for future terrorists then so be it.On the other hand the people there have now seen where being a terrorist gets you.The same for those in Lebanon.

Smileless2012

Have I said you should stop posting Oreo? No I haven't and show me where any of my posts are an attempt to chase you off this thread.

When you're unable too, perhaps you could withdraw your false allegations.

It seems to be something that posters often try and do, when they have already tried other means, such as being personal.
I think you mean able to, not unable to btw.

And no I will continue ‘digging’ as you call it Smileless as it’s my opinion which I have every right to express.
It’s different to yours that’s all.

Am afraid being persecuted and ‘othered’ doesn’t stop one group from persecuting and ‘othering’ another group, at my age and suffering personal tribulations myself at the moment I really despair.
We never learn.

It maybe something that posters often try and do but I don't Oreo.

You're right Babs that we never learn .

As I said in my previous post, people do not want to accept the truth. This is a religious war. I understand that it is hard for many of us in the west to accept the words that are spoken by the leaders of these terroristgroups and governmentswho are Muslim. But when they say they want to destroy Israel, they mean they want to destroy Israel. They want one state, they want to establish an Islamic state. In fact they want the whole world to be under Islam. I get it, it is hard for us in the west to accept such a notion, perhaps it is because of our tolerant attitude.

The argument that some Jews are also calling for the end of the war, does not mean anything. They also are struggling to accept the truth or have their own political agendas. As I said in my previous post, some Jewish organisations supported Hitler on his rise to power.

We all have a right to our own opinions, but our opinions should not be based false claims and fake news.

I would suspect that the majority of people who are anti Israel, don't know the history of the area, have never read the Quran, never really read or listened to these Islamic leaders,never done any proper research regarding Islam and the way you are supposedto treat non muslims and those who are critical of their faith. If you are muslim or a non muslim who is critical of Islam, even in Europe, watch out. It's easier to accept the lies, and the distorting of the facts, than to face up to the truth. because we can't believe that people really want to behave like that. Well some do and it doesn't take many to cause utter and tragic destruction. How many were involvedin the bombing in London 2005? How many were involved in 9/11? I could list more.Very few Muslims leaders stand up and speak against these tragic events.

War is a horrible, tragic, senseless waste of life. Israel will have made mistakes in this war, they are falliblehuman beings, but Israel did not start this war. Despite the posts on here that seem to present evidence that historical Israelis responsible for all this, they are not. I have seen and heard so many lies and distortions of the truth, its mind blowing. The racism towards the Jewish people is beyond any logical explanation, and those who carry on presenting these distort truths and the lies are fueling anti semitism.

The persecutionand killing of Jews in this area has been going on for hundreds of years, well before 1948. And this will continue and will not stop, because a certain "prophet" has decreed that it must be done until every Jew is dead.

When are we going to wake up and face the reality of the situation?

Footage of Gaza from the air is beginning to seep out.

It reminds me of Hiroshima after the atomic bomb was exploded. Utter devastation.

Genocide

MayBee70

I don't really understand it. If Gaza isn't a 'state' then what is it? It must be something. If so, what??

Good question to which I don't know the answer. I shall ask ChatGPT.

Chat says:

✅ What Gaza Is:
A territory located on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea.

Part of the Palestinian territories, claimed by the State of Palestine, which is recognized by over 130 countries but is not a full UN member.

Governed de facto by Hamas since 2007, after a violent split from the Palestinian Authority (PA), which still governs parts of the West Bank.

Subject to blockade and control by Israel (land, sea, and air), and Egypt (at the Rafah border crossing).

Home to about 2.2 million people, making it one of the most densely populated areas on Earth.

Something came up on my Facebook page yesterday, that said that Bread in Gaza is now 3,000 times the price it was before the war. It was posted by SharetheMeal, part of the World Food Programme.

I know supplies are extremely limited - but who are the people who are grabbing the supplies of flour and charging their fellow citizens these exorbitant prices? This is worse than black marketeering, this is Gazan people exploiting other Gazan people who are desperate for food.

How can they? 😥

Who is making a fast buck out of misery?

Try not to blame the victim.

Always understand who initiated the complete blockade.

Oreo

Everyone has bias, that is completely obvious.Some more than others.
I have said on here before that the settlers in the West Bank are awful and wrong and that the IDF like all armies sometimes make mistakes.Do I want Israel to get rid of all hamas, yes I do!
Do I want more aid to be sent in to Gaza, yes I do.
I don’t see a viable alternative to Israel taking over in Gaza at least for the short term if not forever.
It would be nice if posters could argue logically instead of merely wanting to score points.

"The IDF sometimes makes mistakes" is a false allegation. The IDF is a well drilled army under the command of the Israeli state. The Israeli state chose to send IDF soldiers with loaded guns and the command to shoot to kill when necessary.

phil51

I read your post with interest.

My problem is that I can never get past the dirty, hungry, and unhappy children.

They are witness to evil.

caleo personally I would strike off the last two words of your post.

phil51 I also read your post and IMO you have distorted some facts and omitted others. FWIW I am not generally "anti-Israel*, but I have read extensively on the history of the Middle East and keep up-to-date with current affairs.

Oreo

Everyone has bias, that is completely obvious.Some more than others.
I have said on here before that the settlers in the West Bank are awful and wrong and that the IDF like all armies sometimes make mistakes.Do I want Israel to get rid of all hamas, yes I do!
Do I want more aid to be sent in to Gaza, yes I do.
I don’t see a viable alternative to Israel taking over in Gaza at least for the short term if not forever.
It would be nice if posters could argue logically instead of merely wanting to score points.

I'll lend you a mirror.

Allira

Something came up on my Facebook page yesterday, that said that Bread in Gaza is now 3,000 times the price it was before the war. It was posted by SharetheMeal, part of the World Food Programme.

I know supplies are extremely limited - but who are the people who are grabbing the supplies of flour and charging their fellow citizens these exorbitant prices? This is worse than black marketeering, this is Gazan people exploiting other Gazan people who are desperate for food.

How can they? 😥

Who is making a fast buck out of misery?

Simple answer - profiteers. All societies have them. If there were an effective government and judicial system in Gaza, they would be convicted.

Whitewavemark2

caleo personally I would strike off the last two words of your post.

I did wonder about that when I was typing .I think you are right.

Caleo

Whitewavemark2

caleo personally I would strike off the last two words of your post.

I did wonder about that when I was typing .I think you are right.

I don;t know how much autonomy officers and NCOs have in a modern well trained army

growstuff

Oreo

Everyone has bias, that is completely obvious.Some more than others.
I have said on here before that the settlers in the West Bank are awful and wrong and that the IDF like all armies sometimes make mistakes.Do I want Israel to get rid of all hamas, yes I do!
Do I want more aid to be sent in to Gaza, yes I do.
I don’t see a viable alternative to Israel taking over in Gaza at least for the short term if not forever.
It would be nice if posters could argue logically instead of merely wanting to score points.

I'll lend you a mirror.

Indeed, every attempt has been made to shut down any criticism of Netanyahu, the IDF and this genocide- including accusations of antisemitism, and regular reporting to get some members temporarily or permanently banned.

phil51

As I said in my previous post, people do not want to accept the truth. This is a religious war. I understand that it is hard for many of us in the west to accept the words that are spoken by the leaders of these terroristgroups and governmentswho are Muslim. But when they say they want to destroy Israel, they mean they want to destroy Israel. They want one state, they want to establish an Islamic state. In fact they want the whole world to be under Islam. I get it, it is hard for us in the west to accept such a notion, perhaps it is because of our tolerant attitude.

The argument that some Jews are also calling for the end of the war, does not mean anything. They also are struggling to accept the truth or have their own political agendas. As I said in my previous post, some Jewish organisations supported Hitler on his rise to power.

We all have a right to our own opinions, but our opinions should not be based false claims and fake news.

I would suspect that the majority of people who are anti Israel, don't know the history of the area, have never read the Quran, never really read or listened to these Islamic leaders,never done any proper research regarding Islam and the way you are supposedto treat non muslims and those who are critical of their faith. If you are muslim or a non muslim who is critical of Islam, even in Europe, watch out. It's easier to accept the lies, and the distorting of the facts, than to face up to the truth. because we can't believe that people really want to behave like that. Well some do and it doesn't take many to cause utter and tragic destruction. How many were involvedin the bombing in London 2005? How many were involved in 9/11? I could list more.Very few Muslims leaders stand up and speak against these tragic events.

War is a horrible, tragic, senseless waste of life. Israel will have made mistakes in this war, they are falliblehuman beings, but Israel did not start this war. Despite the posts on here that seem to present evidence that historical Israelis responsible for all this, they are not. I have seen and heard so many lies and distortions of the truth, its mind blowing. The racism towards the Jewish people is beyond any logical explanation, and those who carry on presenting these distort truths and the lies are fueling anti semitism.

The persecutionand killing of Jews in this area has been going on for hundreds of years, well before 1948. And this will continue and will not stop, because a certain "prophet" has decreed that it must be done until every Jew is dead.

When are we going to wake up and face the reality of the situation?

I think you are spot on.
I often think (of terrorist activities here in the UK) that the imams in their mosques should say much more to condemn their atrocities. 🤷‍♀️

Israel has one of the largest best equipped armies in the region due to provision of state of the art weaponry by US and other western governments, the IDF are also one of the best trained armies and Israel is protected to a great extent by an anti missile dome and anti missile capability in Jordan and other Arab states paid by the US.
To say that this war is proportional would be to say that an ant is able to fight off a tiger. Hamas dug tunnels because there is no other form of defence and certainly nothing for innocent civilians.
On every level this level of destruction and death suffered mainly on one side is wrong on every level.

Whitewavemark2

phil51

I read your post with interest.

My problem is that I can never get past the dirty, hungry, and unhappy children.

They are witness to evil.

I know it’s heart rending Whitewave but why do their fellow men try to shaft the starving children by profiteering of goods on the black market? Aid freely given by countries distressed at these scenes.

Man’s inhumanity to man. Writ large.