‘Global collapse’ - are we doomed or is there still hope?

If history teaches us one thing, it is that all civilisations eventually collapse. No matter how cultured or powerful.
It also teaches us that other civilisations arise in their place.

So will our civilisation collapse? Inevitably. We may not be here to see it or we may not like what arises in its place.

But people will adjust, just like they always have.

Does he understand history at all? I loathe the romanticising of primitive times.

Nothing we can do about it if we are doomed.

there have always been Doom merchants around. All you need to do is read the bible. Its full of doomsters proclaiming from mountains. and I am sure they existed in pre-literate times as well.

Through out my fairly long life I can remember all kinds of doomsters. There is that great big clock that makes scientists claim every year we are so only so many minutes from nuclear armageddon. It must be nearly 100 years old by now, bit no sign of Armegeddon.

My parents were born around the start of WW1, I was born during WW2. I lived through the Cold War. We are all still here and even in these austere times we are a lot better off and less poor than we were in 1945.

Galaxy

Does he understand history at all? I loathe the romanticising of primitive times.

I have just been reading an article in an archaeological magazine about violence and cannibalism during the Upper Paleolithic. This authors belief, I quote from his article
When you look at the near east, China, Mesoamerica or the Andes, where the first kingdoms and empires arose, you don’t see civilised conduct, you see war, patriarchy and human sacrifice,” he says. This was a form of evolutionary backsliding from the egalitarian and mobile hunter-gatherer societies which shared tools and culture widely and survived for hundreds of thousands of years.

All this does is illustrate how out of date his research is. There is extensive evidence of violence, and cannibalism, in 'mobile hunter gatherer societies', and I am not sure that they were that egalitarian either.

When supposedly highly researched books like this demonstrate that the research is not very thorough I am inclined to doubt the whole premise that the author is selling.

I also have faith in the younger generations coming through. Unfortunately, we only get to hear about the bad ones. Perhaps if we concentrated on the positives and good things the younger generations are doing instead of doom and gloom.
I read a magazine called Positive News and it gives me hope for the future. Young people are coming up with new ideas and practical solutions to some of the problems we face.

I would be amazed if the global geo-political situation is the same in a thousand or so years as it is today. History tells us that great civilisations do fall and I can think of no reason why that shouldn't happen in the future. I won't be around to find out if I'm right, but I suspect humans will survive, but societies could be very different.

I think it’s about resources and always has been. I guess the first societies had little competition because they were so isolated but then they did begin competing for what was available. I think the point in the book, though, is that this is now a global phenomenon whereas previously it was confined to different areas at different times and that whilst some suffered under the breakdown, others were able to benefit. Certainly no one is going to survive a nuclear war unscathed.

I recently read a book about pandemics which claims that infectious type disease wasn’t really a thing in society until man began farming and then keeping animals. Because they were constantly on the move before that, illness didn’t get a grip.

M0nica

there have always been Doom merchants around. All you need to do is read the bible. Its full of doomsters proclaiming from mountains. and I am sure they existed in pre-literate times as well.

Through out my fairly long life I can remember all kinds of doomsters. There is that great big clock that makes scientists claim every year we are so only so many minutes from nuclear armageddon. It must be nearly 100 years old by now, bit no sign of Armegeddon.

My parents were born around the start of WW1, I was born during WW2. I lived through the Cold War. We are all still here and even in these austere times we are a lot better off and less poor than we were in 1945.

Do you remember those men who wandered around town centres with sandwich boards proclaiming "The End of the World is Nigh"?

I suppose there's no need to do that now, with the internet.

Has anyone been watching Human on BBC2, presented by Ella Al-Shamahi? It's a fascinating programme about early humans and Ella Al-Shamahi is such an enthusiastic presenter.
BBC2 on Mondays, available on iPlayer.

I doubt very much whether the end of the world is nigh - I certainly think something catastrophic would need to happen to kill of "homo sapiens" entirely, but I do think that society will be very different in a thousand years and beyond and the centres of power won't be the same either. We will continue to evolve.

Allira

Has anyone been watching Human on BBC2, presented by Ella Al-Shamahi? It's a fascinating programme about early humans and Ella Al-Shamahi is such an enthusiastic presenter.
BBC2 on Mondays, available on iPlayer.

By coincidence, I'm watching it on iplayer now. It duplicates (and updates) some of Alice Roberts' "The Incredible Human Journey".

I have always been pessimistic about the future. It looks awful. Global warming will mean more people leaving their barren lands but they won’t be welcomed where they’re going. This is already happening. AI will mean we won’t know truth from fiction. This is also already happening. There are new powerful nuclear weapons in the hands of power-hungry men. Ecosystems are collapsing. I despair.

I look back at history and see that there has always been catastrophic events, not just in our lifetimes. In fact there were much,much worse things occurring way before we were even thought of. So why are we so arrogant as to think we can control these events in some way ? Who do we think we are ? We are near Lake Taupo just now - likely caused by a massive volcanic eruption approx 26,500 years ago. Then there was Pompeii, various havoc wreaking tsunamis and of course the previous Ice Age. Temperatures have waxed and waned forever.

growstuff

I doubt very much whether the end of the world is nigh - I certainly think something catastrophic would need to happen to kill of "homo sapiens" entirely, but I do think that society will be very different in a thousand years and beyond and the centres of power won't be the same either. We will continue to evolve.

We will continue to evolve.

Yes. It would be strange if we didn't as we have always done so.

For me, and I definitely have a doomsday viewpoint from here in the US, I remind myself that each generation (as a generalized collective) thinks the world as we know it is ending with every change that comes about. Society continues to chug along for thousands of years.

Will what we knew change? Yes. Will it change for the better? Not always. All any of us can do is put one foot on front of the other every day and always put our best foot forward until it is our time to die and hope for the best.

At least that is the lie I tell myself every day.

And now there's a race to be the first to put a nuclear power station on the moon.

I had to check to make sure it wasn't April 1st.

nanna8

I look back at history and see that there has always been catastrophic events, not just in our lifetimes. In fact there were much,much worse things occurring way before we were even thought of. So why are we so arrogant as to think we can control these events in some way ? Who do we think we are ? We are near Lake Taupo just now - likely caused by a massive volcanic eruption approx 26,500 years ago. Then there was Pompeii, various havoc wreaking tsunamis and of course the previous Ice Age. Temperatures have waxed and waned forever.

What if all those things happened at once, though?

However, it’s not about natural phenomena, the cause will be humankind.

I wouldn’t read the book, what’s the point? The world changes sometimes for the better and sometimes not but the great thing about humans is that they adapt.
Just plow your own furrow and don’t give in to depression about what may be.

Allira

Has anyone been watching Human on BBC2, presented by Ella Al-Shamahi? It's a fascinating programme about early humans and Ella Al-Shamahi is such an enthusiastic presenter.
BBC2 on Mondays, available on iPlayer.

I recorded this after hearing the presenter talking about it but haven't got round to watching yet. Sounded very interesting.
As for doom and gloom I admit to having thought lately that it seems everything in the world is going to pot, wars, genocide, starving children, climate change, the NHS, immigration, the govt.... I have always watched the News at 10 before going to bed but now watch the earlier version so I don't go to bed with horrific images on my mind.

However, it’s not about natural phenomena, the cause will be humankind.

I would disagree with that - I follow a number of people talking about weather (including solar weather), geological phenomena like volcanoes and earthquakes and a number of archaeologists. Earth does it's own thing without any interference from us - although we do tend to make it a difficult place to live for all living things.

I rather liked this thought.

There IS hope. The media don't report the progress that is made - both scientifically and diplomatically. Despair sells! I remember 'demonstrating' about the Cuba missile crisis. We were in terror and 'knew' that a madman would soon destroy the world...? Ditto 'over population' - world population is way over that we were TOLD to panic about - yup there is overcrowding etc but we are not shoulder to shoulder. I've taken to St Paul - think on those things that are good.

There's no hope for the UK without significant tax rises and expenditure cuts. The economy needs a boost from inward investment which I doubt will happen. What is needed is a national government of the most able with a clear statement to the public that serious measures have to be taken, not the pabulum handed out so far and not telling voters what they want to hear. Otherwise the UK's chips are cooked. The Swedes managed to pull the fat out of the fire and we must do the same.