Will Trump really support Ukraine at meeting with Putin?

Whatever the outcome of Ukraine Europe has got to up its defence capability a great deal

No problem in accepting thatDavid anyone who doesn't believe this is about future security for Europe is misguided. I'd rather money was spent on other things but if we're not able to defend ourselves, it's all for nothing. Our best defence is readiness to defend ourselves and our strength will come from being part of Europe.

I don't understand what Trump is saying. Is it me or is it just gobbledegook, word salad?
He and Vance are still bullying but not so overtly.

This morning there is lots about the US supporting any security guarantee for Ukraine but very little else, maybe more information to come.

David49

Smileless2012

Daily Telegraph. In response to Trump saying that Zelensky could end the war immediately if he forgoes any desire to be a member of NATO, KS's spokesman has said Russia can't have a veto against Ukraine's pathway to the EU or NATO and said our position on Ukraine and NATO hasn't changed, and that Ukraine's on an irreversible path to membership.

European leaders at today's meeting are attempting to convince Trump to impose further sanctions on Russia.

Planned intervention appears to be at odds with America's position.

I wonder which way will Trump go? Go against Europe and support Putin or effectively turn his back on Putin in support of Ukraine. If the former, what will his fellow Americans think and if the latter, will the world know what if anything Putin has on Trump.

Putin has explicitly stated no NATO membership, do we really expect him to change his whole justification for the war.

As for Trump I don’t think he really cares what the deal is as long as the war ends

Why do you think it's his to dictate? The man has and is committed and committing criminal acts. Since when did you see rewarding the criminal as the way to go?

Thankfully Europe, including and especially the UK led by Starmer, having formed the Coalition of the Willing, were there for Ukraine.

How do you think Trump and the US would feel if another country said it would stop killing US citizens and bombing homes, hospitals and services if the US gave them part of their country?

It's not just the Ukraine that has an interest in this. The whole of Europe, including the UK are at risk from Putin's Russia.

Putin hasn’t exactly had a walk in the park over trying to reclaim territory from Ukraine. Hasn’t been the quick 7 day rearrangement that Putin had in mind. This war shows no signs of a resolution. Putin will start to run out of soldiers at some point. The idea that Putin is a risk to the whole of Europe is unrealistic. Putin is struggling to strengthen his borders and finding it harder than he thought. Putin is fighting a local war and doesn’t have his sights set on inhabiting Europe. PoliticsNerd

Starmer is completely out of his depth over Ukraine. Exactly how is the Uk helping and not hindering the peace process? The West needs to butt out.

God help us all..

ronib

Starmer is completely out of his depth over Ukraine. Exactly how is the Uk helping and not hindering the peace process? The West needs to butt out.

Somebody does indeed need to butt out, but not Starmer, or the West.

The fight is between Putin and Zelensky. Their problem and only they can sort it. The West is enabling this war. It has to stop.

I can’t engage with you about this war ronib, you don’t understand the basic principles of freedom and autonomy.

Somebody does indeed indeed need to butt out, but not Starmer or the West completely agree Casdon.

I think you are wrong ronib. Putin has always wanted more than Ukraine.
He may not be bothered about Western Europe particularly but he does want Russia to include Latvia Estonia Belarus etc. I don't believe he would stop at Ukraine.

“Why do you think it's his to dictate? The man has and is committed and committing criminal acts. Since when did you see rewarding the criminal as the way to go?”

He has taken the initiative, grabbed 20% of Ukraine and is threatening the rest and NATO has not stopped him, dare not stop him. He is the one that is willing to use the power, it’s nothing to do with what is right or fair, he is the bully and nobody is willing to stand up to him.

At the beginning of the Ukraine war Russia was very weak and attempted a half baked invasion, if NATO had called his bluff then we might have saved Ukraine. Instead we allowed Russia to build up its war capability conquer large areas and grow in confidence to the point where he can call the shots.

Russia has massive resources and a population where hardship is a way of life they can fight on for as long as needed, we can offer him all sorts of concessions but Russia has always wanted a neutral Ukraine and I’m not expecting him to concede on that.

Despite his detractors Trump may be edging towards an end to the war for which ordinary people in Ukraine and Russia may be grateful regardless of sovereignty issues.

Listening to people living under Russian occupation in Ukraine they do not want to be part of Russia. They are Ukrainians as were their families before them.

Ukrainians speak Russian too. We don’t in the West.
I see the price of American security in Ukraine has been billed at 66 billion US dollars. The next consignment of arms to kill how many people?
The arms industry continues to grow.

Grantanow

Despite his detractors Trump may be edging towards an end to the war for which ordinary people in Ukraine and Russia may be grateful regardless of sovereignty issues.

Trump has always wanted an end to the war, he’s not bothered what the deal is as long as fighting stops.
He’s happy to contribute to whatever security is agreed, which means he will sell weaponry to Europe and provide the nuclear umbrella

There will always be an arms industry whilst we have people like Putin in power threatening the peace and security of their neighbours. However, I think many of us would prefer to fight for our relative freedoms than live under a dictatorship and that requires having the means to defend ourselves against those who would try to take away those freedoms. Germany annexed Austria and Sudentenland and the world looked the other way, it then marched into Poland. Our big mistake was not reacting strongly when Putin marched into Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine is now paying the price for our lack of support.

ronib

Putin hasn’t exactly had a walk in the park over trying to reclaim territory from Ukraine. Hasn’t been the quick 7 day rearrangement that Putin had in mind. This war shows no signs of a resolution. Putin will start to run out of soldiers at some point. The idea that Putin is a risk to the whole of Europe is unrealistic. Putin is struggling to strengthen his borders and finding it harder than he thought. Putin is fighting a local war and doesn’t have his sights set on inhabiting Europe. PoliticsNerd

Ukraine is going to run out of manpower a long time before Russia does, dont believe the propaganda.

Casdon

I can’t engage with you about this war ronib, you don’t understand the basic principles of freedom and autonomy.

We are not willing to fight for Ukraines freedom, we limit our involvement to a few tanks and missiles, a nice clean safe way of supporting them.

I agree with what you have said Foxie48

Well I suppose death is the ultimate freedom?
On a more sensible note, the Imperial War Museum has a few videos online which I mean to watch.

David49

Casdon

I can’t engage with you about this war ronib, you don’t understand the basic principles of freedom and autonomy.

We are not willing to fight for Ukraines freedom, we limit our involvement to a few tanks and missiles, a nice clean safe way of supporting them.

I know. That isn’t what I disagree with ronib about though.

The West has let Putin get away with his land grab in the past. Now he thinks we won't stop him if he takes Ukraine and tries to recreate the Soviet bloc. We must support Ukraine and stand up to the bully. He absolutely cannot be trusted.