Will Trump really support Ukraine at meeting with Putin?

Putin wants the USSR back and Trump is helping him. He has brought Putin back onto the world stage. The my pal Putin act is only working one way in Putin's favour.

Speculation that Putin demanded that Trump gets rid of Zelenskii.

There is no love lost between Trump and Zelenskii, but Zelenskii is a democratically elected leader so how does that work?

Zelenskii is meeting with Trump on Monday in Washington (he better not wear a suit😡😡😡) so we will get some idea of the lay of the land then I think.

ronib

Lathyrus3 there’s a lot of blood shed between England and Scotland over the centuries.

Yeh that trick of introducing an irrelevancy to avoid difficult issues doesn’t really work with me.

Would you like to comment on recent Russian military aggression! Or their record on human rights and recoded atrocities on population s under their control?

No?

Suggestion also that the hold on Trump is far more serious.

He will never be able to challenge Putin.

Lathyrus3 there’s a lot of blood shed between England and Scotland over the centuries.

Well of course that’s a very good reason for Russia to fight then foxie48. That makes perfect sense to me. Strategic positioning on the Black Sea. I had forgotten the obvious.

ronib

How much choice do people really have?

The Ukrainians have made their choice.

They chose to die or flee rather than be part of Russia.

You would take that choice from the in the name of stopping war.

You say you don’t ant war and yet you support military might?

So it seems Putin has got exactly what he wanted.

Meet with Trump

Show he is a free man and not a war criminal

Gave nothing

This is now being played out as a massive win in Russia.

Trump got nothing and in fact the USA now looks weaker, largely as a result of trump and his team failing to put any preparatory work beforehand.

Reports say that the Trump team looked ashen and flummoxed .

Ronib there's a reason why countries joined together to form NATO, it was to stop big strong countries from walking into smaller countries and taking them over. Sweden and Finland joined NATO pretty quickly when Russia invaded Ukraine because they feared that they might be next on his list. Russia doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO for the very good reason that NATO countries would be forced to defend it. There has never been any reason for Russia to take any part of Ukraine except for increasing it's military power because of it's strategic importance over the Black Sea, this talk of "mother Russia" etc is absolute rubbish.

ronib

Think Scotland manages quite well as part of the United Kingdom Lathyrus3.
It needn’t be another Gaza.

As far as I know UK troops don’t rape, starve and kill the people of Scotland.

Do you deliberately gnome the xoeriences of those who have lived and suffered under Russian domination?

Putin - former KGB foreign intelligence officer.

Trump - former real estate ‘investor’ and game show host.

No wonder Trump applauded Putin like a clapping seal.

What a sham!

How much choice do people really have?

Soviet

My typos

Russia

Well we can go by what happened before when Rsdua took Ukraine and massacred millions.

Or we can speak to those living who suffered years of Sven oppression after WW2.

War will not stop if people would rather die than live in fear and oppression.

Think Scotland manages quite well as part of the United Kingdom Lathyrus3.
It needn’t be another Gaza.

Interestingly Ukraine has been psychologically linked to Mother Russia probably more than any other territories in recent propaganda. Ukraine is not going to win. I might want it to but it won’t.
I can’t guess Putin’s next move after he reincorporates Ukraine back into the motherland Lathyrus3.

ronib

I think one solution might be for Ukraine to stay a country but under the umbrella of a Russian Federation. In much the same way as England, Scotland,Wales and Ireland are all part of the United Kingdom.
If it stops more soldiers from certain death, then it is a small price to pay. Russia definitely wants Ukraine as part of Russia and not Europe. I do not share the view of Boris Johnson that this is a war that can be won by Ukraine. It should stop.

Stop the war by handing people over to oppression and genociide?

That’s worked well in Gaza hasnt it?

ronib

It’s not an expansionist Russia but Russia asking for territory back which they gave away. They want Ukraine back as part of Russia to give added protection to its own borders.
It’s as if we had given Scotland its freedom and then had second thoughts.

Do you man that all former Soviet Union countries are part of territory that Russia “gave away” and should be returned?

I guess you’re pretty much n line with Russia thinking on that score.

No wonder those all those people under former Soviet oppression are preparing for war.

I think one solution might be for Ukraine to stay a country but under the umbrella of a Russian Federation. In much the same way as England, Scotland,Wales and Ireland are all part of the United Kingdom.
If it stops more soldiers from certain death, then it is a small price to pay. Russia definitely wants Ukraine as part of Russia and not Europe. I do not share the view of Boris Johnson that this is a war that can be won by Ukraine. It should stop.

FWIW Ukraine was part of Poland far longer than it was part of Russia, perhaps Poland should invade too?

foxie48

I think what it is easy to forget is that Europe and many other parts of the world, who have believed that the US wanted to be the "world's policeman" and would continue in that role, have bought the bulk of their defence weapons from the US. This means they have enabled the US to fund their own military defence more cheaply as well as making Europe etc dependent upon the US for weapons in the future. It's not easy to switch to other manufacturers because of the technology involved. This is why Trump's changed position is so treacherous. I don't see a "poisoned chalice" I see moral responsibility and frankly naked self interest. The UK can no more afford to see an expansionist Russia moving through Europe than we could when Germany started to threaten Poland. The difference is we have the benefit of hindsight.

Yes

The majority of Ukrainians voted to leave Russia in 1991 as did the citizens of many other countries in the USSR. Russia has borders with Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania (via Kaliningrad Oblast), Poland (via Kaliningrad Oblast), Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, China, Mongolia, and North Korea. Are you suggesting that's it's OK to occupy another country in order to secure your border with them?

It’s not an expansionist Russia but Russia asking for territory back which they gave away. They want Ukraine back as part of Russia to give added protection to its own borders.
It’s as if we had given Scotland its freedom and then had second thoughts.

I think what it is easy to forget is that Europe and many other parts of the world, who have believed that the US wanted to be the "world's policeman" and would continue in that role, have bought the bulk of their defence weapons from the US. This means they have enabled the US to fund their own military defence more cheaply as well as making Europe etc dependent upon the US for weapons in the future. It's not easy to switch to other manufacturers because of the technology involved. This is why Trump's changed position is so treacherous. I don't see a "poisoned chalice" I see moral responsibility and frankly naked self interest. The UK can no more afford to see an expansionist Russia moving through Europe than we could when Germany started to threaten Poland. The difference is we have the benefit of hindsight.