Will Trump really support Ukraine at meeting with Putin?

foxie48

Wouldn't disagree about Trump I have no respect for him either but ATM Europe needs Trump on board. We've let our own military strength dissipate believing that the US would carry on as the world's policeman. We live in dangerous times, this pivot by Trump is potentially very destabilising and will allow the bullies of the world throw their weight around. Will Taiwan be the next to be invaded? If it is, Ronib will you then say it's between Xi Jinping and Lai Ching-te ie A country of 1400million people invading a country of 23million?

This is not just Trumps standpoint its the view of all his military commanders, DO NOT escalate a war against Russia - because China will take advantage of it and we can’t take on both. Let Ukraine go, leave it to Europe to deal with.

He is bringing Europe into the real world where we have to defend ourselves and not hang onto US coat tails. Europe can stand up to a hostile neighbour, if we value our freedoms we are going to have to fight to defend them.

We have to remember we need to defend ourselves on Russia’s terms, we are not going to do that by being Mr Nice Guy

I think baking a cake makes more sense….

Are they in black and white?

"instead of watching war films why not do some digging on what Putin has got up not only in his own country but on foreign territory, "

Just a suggestion, Ronib !

foxie48telling me not to watch any more war films? From the Imperial War Museum!!

Black and white, mmm perhaps. Give me an example from one of my posts so I can think about it.

Well I am flattered to be asked foxie48 not knowing a thing about Taiwan. As a general principle of course not. However the political and social system/situation is extremely complex with Ukraine and it feels as if the world is being run by really crazy and powerful men. If you don’t mind me writing, you do seem to have a very black and white approach to events?

Wouldn't disagree about Trump I have no respect for him either but ATM Europe needs Trump on board. We've let our own military strength dissipate believing that the US would carry on as the world's policeman. We live in dangerous times, this pivot by Trump is potentially very destabilising and will allow the bullies of the world throw their weight around. Will Taiwan be the next to be invaded? If it is, Ronib will you then say it's between Xi Jinping and Lai Ching-te ie A country of 1400million people invading a country of 23million?

Remind me again- was it back in January 2025 or February when Trump declared to the world that America would no longer fight the battles for the rest of the world? Didn’t take long to change his mind. Or perhaps Trump sees this war as part of the Making America Great Again?
Putin may well resemble a Mafia boss but so does Trump.

Ronib

"So the problem is one of nationalism?"
No, I think he'd like to recreate the USSR but most of the ex USSR countries don't want that. Nationalism is keeping the Ukrainians fighting because they want to stay Ukrainian.

" I don’t know what benefit the USA is seeking to gain from this war. "
Apart from the things that David has already mentioned, Trump wants to build a Trump tower in Moscow, he wants the Nobel peace prize and he and his family have done lots of business with Russian money. There's strong evidence that Russia interfered in US elections to Trump's benefit and I also wouldn't be surprised if Putin has something on Trump but that's for another day as I have absolutely no evidence for saying that.
"I think Putin is deeply opposed to the West and NATO is the embodiment of all he despises."
Well you don't need much insight to know that, it's crystal clear what he thinks of the West and Western values which is another good reason not to let him expand his empire. He's a ruthless, violent dictator who thinks nothing of killing those who oppose him and who runs an oppressive regime with almost total control of the media. He's basically a criminal who runs Russia like a Mafia boss, instead of watching war films why not do some digging on what Putin has got up not only in his own country but on foreign territory, you could start with the UK.

“I don’t know what benefit the USA is seeking to gain from this war. The art of the deal and all that?”

The US will gain:-
By US companies being able to trade with Russia and Ukraine
By selling arms to Europe
By rebuilding Ukraine, but that depends on stable politics.

surely not just "soldiers" dying?

foxie48 Russia is a nuclear power- but it is not the only country with nuclear weapons. It’s therefore contained by the knowledge that it would be counter attacked surely?
Putin hasn’t always said that he doesn’t want Ukraine as part of the West. That’s a problem because parts of Ukraine I understand, are more Western looking than Eastern (Russian). So the problem is one of nationalism?
I don’t know what benefit the USA is seeking to gain from this war. The art of the deal and all that?
I think Putin is deeply opposed to the West and NATO is the embodiment of all he despises.
Yes foxie48 I remain deeply opposed to more soldiers dying.

Casdon

I can’t engage with you about this war ronib, you don’t understand the basic principles of freedom and autonomy.

Sadly, I have to agree that this is certainly how it comes across.

Ronib Firstly, Russia is a nuclear power, secondly, if any NATO country puts boots on the ground to defend Ukraine it risks escalating the conflict which no one wants. Support for Ukraine is best done via ensuring it has the weapons and training required to defend itself. Sadly, the position taken by Trump has weakened Ukraine's ability to defend itself and allowed Russia, although weakened by war, to make further inroads into Ukraine. Of course Putin doesn't have the ability to walk through Ukraine which is why Putin wants to settle for the time being with territory and an agreement that Ukraine will never be given access to NATO membership. If he didn't intend to return to take more bites out of Ukraine, he would not worry about Ukraine being in NATO. tbh I'm really surprised that you have asked this question as previously you seemed to understand this and seemed to be very anti doing anything that might escalate this horrible war.

ronib

One of the videos on the Imperial War Museum’s website reinforces the fact that Putin miscalculated in the early days of the conflict. Putin hasn’t the ability to march through Ukraine which is on its doorstep. If the West really wanted to combine to defeat Putin in a timely manner it could. So why hasn’t it?

Do you not understand why?
🤨

This small but important exclave of Russia is nestled between the Baltic States and Poland.

Smileless2012

Any countries Putin has his eye on who aren't members of NATO, need to be allowed to join pretty darn quick.

They may not want to.
Serbia, Moldova, Austria, Switzerland, Belarus

Ukraine, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Georgia have applied.

One of the videos on the Imperial War Museum’s website reinforces the fact that Putin miscalculated in the early days of the conflict. Putin hasn’t the ability to march through Ukraine which is on its doorstep. If the West really wanted to combine to defeat Putin in a timely manner it could. So why hasn’t it?

The West has let Putin get away with his land grab in the past. Now he thinks we won't stop him if he takes Ukraine and tries to recreate the Soviet bloc. We must support Ukraine and stand up to the bully. He absolutely cannot be trusted.

David49

Casdon

I can’t engage with you about this war ronib, you don’t understand the basic principles of freedom and autonomy.

We are not willing to fight for Ukraines freedom, we limit our involvement to a few tanks and missiles, a nice clean safe way of supporting them.

I know. That isn’t what I disagree with ronib about though.

Well I suppose death is the ultimate freedom?
On a more sensible note, the Imperial War Museum has a few videos online which I mean to watch.

I agree with what you have said Foxie48

Casdon

I can’t engage with you about this war ronib, you don’t understand the basic principles of freedom and autonomy.

We are not willing to fight for Ukraines freedom, we limit our involvement to a few tanks and missiles, a nice clean safe way of supporting them.

ronib

Putin hasn’t exactly had a walk in the park over trying to reclaim territory from Ukraine. Hasn’t been the quick 7 day rearrangement that Putin had in mind. This war shows no signs of a resolution. Putin will start to run out of soldiers at some point. The idea that Putin is a risk to the whole of Europe is unrealistic. Putin is struggling to strengthen his borders and finding it harder than he thought. Putin is fighting a local war and doesn’t have his sights set on inhabiting Europe. PoliticsNerd

Ukraine is going to run out of manpower a long time before Russia does, dont believe the propaganda.

There will always be an arms industry whilst we have people like Putin in power threatening the peace and security of their neighbours. However, I think many of us would prefer to fight for our relative freedoms than live under a dictatorship and that requires having the means to defend ourselves against those who would try to take away those freedoms. Germany annexed Austria and Sudentenland and the world looked the other way, it then marched into Poland. Our big mistake was not reacting strongly when Putin marched into Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine is now paying the price for our lack of support.