Ricky Jones

Kandinsky

And this verdict will undoubtedly lead to more division.

Unfortunately I fear that you are correct.

Jaberwok. I was not suggesting that was the advice from youth or probation staff. It was ‘the truth’ as understood by repeat offenders.

Kandinsky is correct to conclude the guilty can have a not guilty finding when the jury can’t reach Guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
Not a perfect system but it’s the best we have

Tell the truth and shame the Devil? Errr No! Tell the truth, you go to prison. Tell an untruth, regardless of evidence, you get off scott free. Not much of an example to young people?!

When I worked with offenders, it was a truth amongst ‘the regulars’ , always plead not guilty. Then get your case moved from the Magistrates Court to the Crown Court. There, not guilty findings or lesser sentences were believed more likely.

And this verdict will undoubtedly lead to more division.

I’m sure plenty of guilty people are found innocent - not because they are ( in many cases ) but because there’s just not enough evidence to prove their guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
But in this case it’s unbelievable that he was found not guilty - the evidence is there for all to see.
I wonder what the verdict would have been if Tommy Robinson had said and done the exact same thing.
I wonder……..

What I find astonishing is that the evidence is out there, it has been viewed millions of times.

Plead not guilty, get yourself a fancy lawyer, and hey ho you walk free…

The law is an ass, especially if you know a good jockey

I'm sure many people on GN have done jury service.

I served on a jury about 20 years ago and I'm convinced we let a guilty man go free. His reaction when the verdict was announced suggested that he couldn't believe his luck.

It took us some time to reach the verdict. The defendant didn't seem to be a very likeable person, but in all honesty, there were serious doubts about the prosecution case. In the UK, people are innocent until proved guilty and we just couldn't prove him guilty.

Primrose53

Allira

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

Sorry, but justice is not always served.

There have been so many cases of miscarriages of justice and there must be many cases where the guilty walk free or where juries cannot set aside their prejudices. They are not infallible.

Agreed.
An immigrant who is a knife wielding drug dealer and sexually assaulted a young girl has just been allowed to stay in the UK by a judge who was on the board of a pro-asylum charity!

I have no faith in our judicial system.

Would you rather have anarchy or maybe some kind of autocracy with absolutely no involvement of ordinary people? You obviously live in the wrong country Primrose53.

Allira

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

Sorry, but justice is not always served.

There have been so many cases of miscarriages of justice and there must be many cases where the guilty walk free or where juries cannot set aside their prejudices. They are not infallible.

Agreed.
An immigrant who is a knife wielding drug dealer and sexually assaulted a young girl has just been allowed to stay in the UK by a judge who was on the board of a pro-asylum charity!

I have no faith in our judicial system.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff I think it’s irrelevant who he was referring to and/or advocating for their throats to be cut.

The video footage is still out there for all and sundry to see.

Inciting violence is just that, incitement to commit a crime/

Don't shoot the messenger!

eazybee

Apparently he is no longer a Labour Councillor, but an Independent, is suspended and is being investigated by the Labour Party.
But that does not explain why he was given such a lenient sentence, or why Lucy Connolly is apparently denied privileges in prison she is entitled to in respect of her sentence.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was given any sentence. He was found not guilty. Lucy Connolly's case didn't go to jury; she pleaded guilty.

Like it or not, that's the way the system works Lucy Connolly was guilty in the eyes of the law because she herself said she was.

Ricky Jones couldn't be given any sentence because a jury found him not guilty.

That's not "two tier justice". It's about somebody knowing he was more likely to have a fair hearing in front of a jury and Connolly not realising that if she were to plead guilty, the judge would have to accept that and sentence her according to the guidelines.

There must be some reason that Lucy Connolly is being denied privileges.

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

Sorry, but justice is not always served.

There have been so many cases of miscarriages of justice and there must be many cases where the guilty walk free or where juries cannot set aside their prejudices. They are not infallible.

Apparently he is no longer a Labour Councillor, but an Independent, is suspended and is being investigated by the Labour Party.
But that does not explain why he was given such a lenient sentence, or why Lucy Connolly is apparently denied privileges in prison she is entitled to in respect of her sentence.

Sometimes the law is an ass.🐴

Casdon

I think there’s a difference between the correct judicial decision in accord with the law being made and respected for the law being upheld, and peoples views about whether the law is actually correct or not.

Yes, I know what you mean.
Having a good defence lawyer helps tho and the judge taking into account your previous behaviour and ‘good name’.
So does acting remorsefully.

Is it any different from the large numbers of people advocating throwing people out of dinghies to drown, or asking for gunships in the Channel and armed troops on the beaches? A certain type of patriot really wants to see people dead. They are currently really enjoying the floods in Pakistan.

See my later post Oreo, it’s the suggestion that the decision was not in accord with the law that I was disputing, I was not suggesting that I supported what he said.

Well that sticker story has been used in every free speech debate going back years so I will view it with a little bit of scepticism. They hurled that accusation at the feminists a while back.

Casdon

How can anybody make such serious accusations about the British judicial system when they know sweet fa about the detail of the individual case? Anarchy will rule this country soon if people have such little respect for the law. Judges and juries make many decisions I don’t agree with, but that does not mean I think they are corrupt or politically biased.

The thing is…it’s there for all to see, on film, him and his microphone saying what he did and making the fingers across the throat gesture for emphasis.
Death threats.
But he got away with it didn’t he?🤬

growstuff I think it’s irrelevant who he was referring to and/or advocating for their throats to be cut.

The video footage is still out there for all and sundry to see.

Inciting violence is just that, incitement to commit a crime/

GrannyGravy13

I would have thought being videoed shouting cut their throats which has been all over social media for the last twelve months was inciting violence.

But hey ho, he’s a Labour councillor of Asian descent, not a blonde conservative women…

Apparently (and I wasn't there, so I'm only going by what I read), he was referring to people who had been putting National Front stickers on railway carriages with razor blades stuck to the back of them.

I think there’s a difference between the correct judicial decision in accord with the law being made and respected for the law being upheld, and peoples views about whether the law is actually correct or not.

I totally understand and somewhat agree with you Galaxy this verdict will fan the flames of the disenfranchised.