Teen who planned mosque mass murder given 10-year sentence

Crossstitchfan

Oreo

Want to amend the thread title?
It was a synagogue not a mosque.

Not according to all the different reports I’ve read Oreo. Nor according to the news this morning.
Anyway, where-ever it was, it was a dreadful occurrence.

Can we have the web reference to the synagogue attack you mentioned as growstuff mixing up you mentioned Oreo?

Thanks Allira. I think I’ve got it wrong!

Wyllow3

Crossstitchfan

Oreo

Want to amend the thread title?
It was a synagogue not a mosque.

Not according to all the different reports I’ve read Oreo. Nor according to the news this morning.
Anyway, where-ever it was, it was a dreadful occurrence.

Can we have the web reference to the synagogue attack you mentioned as growstuff mixing up you mentioned Oreo?

I haven't mixed anything up Wyllow.

I gave two separate links at the beginning of the thread to two separate planned attacks.

Where are the parents in all this? Do they realise what is going on with their children or are they totally ignorant ? I think I would know if my kids were radicalised to that extent because kids talk and you would hear them or at least overhear them. You would know something isn’t right.

I should have made it clearer. I wanted to focus on the extreme violence of these young man rather than the targets - that's why I chose one on a mosque and one on a synagogue - to show it isn't one-sided. It wouldn't surprise me is they are the same people who throw bricks and bottles at the police. FoI requests showed that nearly half the people convicted in the Southport riots had previous for domestic/sexual abuse, so it seems they don't have much respect for women and their own family either. I'm getting concerned about the general toxic environment and I think it's coming from the top.

nanna8

Where are the parents in all this? Do they realise what is going on with their children or are they totally ignorant ? I think I would know if my kids were radicalised to that extent because kids talk and you would hear them or at least overhear them. You would know something isn’t right.

It's the parents who have brought them up and probably have the same vile views.

Dreadful, but you can't just blame parents. Our generation, older people have let young people down. Only now the damage has been done. Mobile phones attached to their ears all the time, the vile things on the internet affecting young minds. The violence now headlined each day. The news full of wars around us, the woke brigade makes them frightened to open their mouths, so much about the boats coming and the country in debt. Covid and all the restrictions. It's not the safe country I grew up in, glad I was born when I was and I am stuck this end not starting. These boys were radicalised, why with all the technology we have why are these sites and people allowed to warp young minds, they were let down for this to happen. Parents are not there looking over their shoulders 24/7.

Allsorts I'm not just blaming parents. Prevent claims there are three main sources of radicalisation: social media, family and peer group and the "general" environment including main stream media, news and celebs, etc.

(Which is what you wrote.)

There are also risk factors such as personality traits.

Social media is like the wild west and I'm not sure it can be controlled. Nobody can ever force family to watch everything their teenagers do (and it wouldn't be desirable anyway), but I do think that public figures could be more mindful of the influence they have.

What do you mean about the "woke brigade" making peope frightened to open their mouths? You should try going on Twitter and reading the very "unwoke" stuff people write and are allowed to write. If everybody were a bit more woke, they might have more respect for other people.

Sorry, but I don't see the connection between being "unwoke" and bombing synagogues or mosques.

On reading this thread I clicked on the link provided by growstuff to read the report and it was about an attack on a synagogue. Reading further I realised from another link there was a separate incident on a mosque.Both by teenagers. Hope that clears it up.

growstuff

Oreo

The dark web included.
Hardly any parents are aware of what their kids are doing, computer wise and short of standing behind them and checking computers and phones constantly how can anyone know what they are doing or who they are talking to or listening to.

The ideas are coming from adults. Adults could start off by setting an example. IMO we need to question claims about free speech, including (especially) politicians.

Some adults, parents and teachers do set a good example but teenagers are, as I already said, easy prey to bad people on the Internet.
These kids may have had good or poor upbringings, may or may not have poor mental health, often are lonely individuals.
They try to fit in with ‘friends’ a group online.Which leads to further poor choices.Teenagers are the easiest of all to radicalise.

growstuff

nanna8

Where are the parents in all this? Do they realise what is going on with their children or are they totally ignorant ? I think I would know if my kids were radicalised to that extent because kids talk and you would hear them or at least overhear them. You would know something isn’t right.

It's the parents who have brought them up and probably have the same vile views.

The parents of the Southport murderer desperately tried to get help for their son. They knew there was something wrong with him.
Perhaps they just weren't strict enough with him?

I didn't say that parents are the only cause, but they are in some cases.

I haven't a clue went wrong in the Southport case. All I know is that he does seem to have some of the other risk factors eg being a loner. I'm no armchair psychiatrist. I believe he pleaded guilty, so there were no details given in court and I'm not going to speculate.

However, it seems he was referred to Prevent three times, but wasn't accepted because no terrorism was identified. There's a massive hole in the system somewhere.

Oreo Yes, the internet does influence some young people - that's what I wrote. I never claimed that parents are always responsible for everything, but they are sometimes.

Oreo

On reading this thread I clicked on the link provided by growstuff to read the report and it was about an attack on a synagogue. Reading further I realised from another link there was a separate incident on a mosque.Both by teenagers. Hope that clears it up.

Yes, it does. I provided two links.

The plans were terrible, horrific that these young people would want to do this but I was moved by the words of the Mosque Chairman. If only more people could express compassion like him.

I think you know full well what woke is and I completely disagree with you. Pointless showing the difference between just having good manners and being considerate and treating others as you wish to be treated and the way out ideas of the woke brigade, thank goodness the tide is turning..

It doesn’t matter what religion it is, it’s just sickening- what were the parents doing?

growstuff

I should have made it clearer. I wanted to focus on the extreme violence of these young man rather than the targets - that's why I chose one on a mosque and one on a synagogue - to show it isn't one-sided. It wouldn't surprise me is they are the same people who throw bricks and bottles at the police. FoI requests showed that nearly half the people convicted in the Southport riots had previous for domestic/sexual abuse, so it seems they don't have much respect for women and their own family either. I'm getting concerned about the general toxic environment and I think it's coming from the top.

Thank you for the clarification, appreciated: spot on to give references to both.

Mt61

It doesn’t matter what religion it is, it’s just sickening- what were the parents doing?

I agree it doesn't matter what religion the targets were. What's important is that both seemed to focus on something they really hated. I don't understand why people can hate a religion so much. They both wanted to destroy something which was of great importance to some people.

Allsorts

I think you know full well what woke is and I completely disagree with you. Pointless showing the difference between just having good manners and being considerate and treating others as you wish to be treated and the way out ideas of the woke brigade, thank goodness the tide is turning..

No, we're not going to agree. I have personally been accused more than once of being a member of some "woke brigade". I really don't know which of my ideas is "way out" and I don't see how it's relevant to the cases of two wannabe murderers. If they had succeeded, how would murdering groups of worshipping Jews or Muslims have been a victory for "woke", unless "woke" is a synonym for angry, racist, intolerant and bigoted?

growstuff

petra

I see the article mentions the telegram app.
Known as the app for your drug of choice delivered to your door.
Short of recruiting thousands to monitor this crap it’s not going to stop.
But that doesn’t come cheap.

I didn't know that petra (not that I'm in the market for drugs).

That app is causing terrible problems in the north west where there are literally hundreds of adds for Ketamine 😡

Using expressions like "the woke brigade" is intended to belittle and ridicule people whose views are different from your own.

petra

growstuff

petra

I see the article mentions the telegram app.
Known as the app for your drug of choice delivered to your door.
Short of recruiting thousands to monitor this crap it’s not going to stop.
But that doesn’t come cheap.

I didn't know that petra (not that I'm in the market for drugs).

That app is causing terrible problems in the north west where there are literally hundreds of adds for Ketamine 😡

I've never used Telegram or any illegal drug, so I can't say I know much about either. It shouldn't be beyond the powers of the authorities to chase down the supply lines. The only thing I know for a fact is from my daughter, who works for the National Crime Agency, is that they are woefully under-resourced. They keep being landed with new responsibilities - people smuggling gangs, serious porn, drugs, sex abuse gangs, money laundering etc etc, but no new resources to tackle anything. Most of these operations are international, which makes it more difficult to combat.

I'm not sure that the kind of young people who want to firebomb mosques and synagogues are involve in the above. I think there's something else going on in their minds. TBH I don't know, but I hope somebody will get a grip soon. PS. That "somebody" isn't Reform (or spin offs) or any of the antisocial far right groups, who do nothing but cultivate social breakdown for their own ends.