Man made famine - the world should be ashamed

For those who can see no wrong in the Israeli aggression in Gaza which has led to genocide and starvation - yes I know not saint Bibi’s fault, every death is down to Hamas - how do they account for what is happening on the West Bank. Which is in a totally different location, a different form of Palestinian governance, so not one Hamas operative anywhere in sight?
Right now illegal settlers are attacking innocent Palestinians there, taking their land and property, and building illegal settlements on said land with the help of the IDF, which btw they have been doing for decades. Saint Bibi is fully aware of this and actively encouraging it so how about trying to justify this??

The world has gone mad. aids, abuse, sex, famine, trafficking, and climate change, however it is my belief that good will overcome evil.
Take care my friends, smile and help thy neighbour a little goes a long way.

David49

Because 20 live hostages give them as much power over Israel as several million Palestinians.
Israel does care about hostages, Hamas don’t care how many Palestinians die, the more children the better its more propaganda value.

Netanyahu are happy to shoot escaped hostages, create starvation where hostages are held and obliterate Gaza city while Israelis are protesting. Imagine what they will do when there are no hostages, no hostages families protesting. Barbarism when a supposed western democracy is killing babies.

woodenspoon

Does anybody remember what started this and who started it? Hamas kidnapped and killed Israeli citizens. That’s what started all this. The mess is of their making. Those Israeli citizens are also being starved to death by Hamas while in captive.

Are we in preschool or primary school? Let's face it "who started it" as a defence definitely stops by the time we're in senior school

Rosie51

I sometimes wonder if anyone sees how patronising and infantilising their posts towards African and SE Asian people are? White supremacy, even when capitalising white accountability, is so all inclusive and dismissive. Self flagellation is something I must investigate.

Please explain.

Rosie51

growstuff

Which statements do you consider erroneous Allira?

There could even be some truth in the claim about Aids. Although it seems to be accepted that Aids originated in chimps and gorillas, there's also a credible theory that Aids was partially spread by unsterile needles from vaccinations (imposed by colonists).

The post is certainly emotional (nothing wrong with that) but I can't see any blatant inaccuracy.

I think there is a general feeling that Africa is a basket case and it's ignored. I think that Africa will eventually have its day (long after we're all dead).

Do you honestly believe that the Aids epidemic was caused by 'imposed vaccinations' by unsterile needles? That seems an awfully long reach to me, but I guess if you're that determined to believe every ill is caused by the awful West then it's pretty easy. When you have skin in the game then you have skin in the game.....I'm fervent about learning difficulties, ADHD, autism etc so I do get it.

It's not what I believe, but it's been claimed by scientists that it contributed and it appears there is acceptance from some respected sources.

FWIW I don't believe that vaccinations caused Aids. I think it's established that it started when there was a species cross-over from chimps and gorillas, probably in the Congo and from eating bushmeat.

It's accepted that it's transmitted when bodily fluids mingle, as happens with sex. It has also been suggested that FGM contributes because the implements used aren't sterile - but also vaccinations - again needles aren't/weren't always sterile.

So, no, I don't think the "white man" took Aids to Africa in the same way Europeans took the common cold (and other diseases) to the Inuit. However, it's feasible that they were a contributing factor.

It is a fact now that Aids is worldwide and the US government has currently cut back on funding, so there's nothing wrong with that claim.

Is there anything else in Wyllow's post which you think is incorrect? Maybe we could discuss it on a civilised way rather than dismiss it out of hand.

Oppression often leads to fierce opposition, having tan outcome outcome in pride, the celebration and re-engagement in once crushed cultures (like the rediscovery of strength, languages, and fine men and women who stood up to their oppressors. Demanding for example the return of the looted artefacts of Benin. The fact that African mathematics was way ahead of Western Europe, going back thousands of years.

Nelson Mandela is one such man, and there are many, many more.

It's not so far away in principle to the men and women in the West who are bringing into the light the contribution of women in sciences and the arts. Women such as Artemisia Gentileschi in painting: Ada Lovelace, who is considered the first computer programmer.

I sometimes wonder if anyone sees how patronising and infantilising their posts towards African and SE Asian people are? White supremacy, even when capitalising white accountability, is so all inclusive and dismissive. Self flagellation is something I must investigate.

It did originate in Africa emerging in the 1920's.

Yes done my research. Growstuff has a point

look at

"Why did AIDS spread so quickly in the 80s?"

Sex tourism and contaminated blood transfusion centres ultimately propelled AIDS to public consciousness in the 1980s and a worldwide pandemic

www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=whre+did+Aids+start+and+how+did+it+spread&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#vhid=_uscFWpfKHKh0M&vssid=l

so Westerners went over there just as there is now a sex trade in Thailand.

Exploitative as other practices that use what we used to call the Third World - so sex trade, garments made abroad, land transferred as I said transferred from subsistence "going what you ate" to wealthy ownership of agricultural estates for food sent abroad

growstuff

Which statements do you consider erroneous Allira?

There could even be some truth in the claim about Aids. Although it seems to be accepted that Aids originated in chimps and gorillas, there's also a credible theory that Aids was partially spread by unsterile needles from vaccinations (imposed by colonists).

The post is certainly emotional (nothing wrong with that) but I can't see any blatant inaccuracy.

I think there is a general feeling that Africa is a basket case and it's ignored. I think that Africa will eventually have its day (long after we're all dead).

Do you honestly believe that the Aids epidemic was caused by 'imposed vaccinations' by unsterile needles? That seems an awfully long reach to me, but I guess if you're that determined to believe every ill is caused by the awful West then it's pretty easy. When you have skin in the game then you have skin in the game.....I'm fervent about learning difficulties, ADHD, autism etc so I do get it.

Rosie51

Isn't the Aids issue a big enough incorrect, totally wrong LIE to make you think you ought to check before you post? Are you unaware that some people may not see the rather belated correction and truly believe your original post?
Saying that you post 'from the heart' sounds so sincere, but if that is misguided or inaccurate do you not appreciate the harm that can ensue? There's that saying that 'a lie is halfway around the world before the truth has its boots on', worth considering surely?

Rosie51 The Aids issue might not be as incorrect as you think.

Which statements do you consider erroneous Allira?

There could even be some truth in the claim about Aids. Although it seems to be accepted that Aids originated in chimps and gorillas, there's also a credible theory that Aids was partially spread by unsterile needles from vaccinations (imposed by colonists).

The post is certainly emotional (nothing wrong with that) but I can't see any blatant inaccuracy.

I think there is a general feeling that Africa is a basket case and it's ignored. I think that Africa will eventually have its day (long after we're all dead).

Isn't the Aids issue a big enough incorrect, totally wrong LIE to make you think you ought to check before you post? Are you unaware that some people may not see the rather belated correction and truly believe your original post?
Saying that you post 'from the heart' sounds so sincere, but if that is misguided or inaccurate do you not appreciate the harm that can ensue? There's that saying that 'a lie is halfway around the world before the truth has its boots on', worth considering surely?

Where's the "outright lies"?

As far as I can see, Aids are the it is the only totally incorrect statement, there may be disagreements as to my interpretation of history, but that is now a lie.

Btw, I do regret following the lead away as in "what about Sudan" - when we are discussing Gaza, however I do see a parallel in the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank by a colonising force.

Wyllow3

Yes, it's been pointed out on Aids already, I don't have a problem being corrected. Life is too short.

Yet you don't feel the need to come back and clarify you've posted inaccurately and apologise? It really does diminish confidence in your posts Wyllow. 'Posting from the heart' with inaccurate information does not excuse outright lies, intended or not. It really isn't any different to other (even right wing) biased posts 'from the heart'.

Oreo

What’s with all this silly being ashamed stuff?Nobody can do anything about conflicts in the Middle East.It’s like wanting to wear a hair shirt or whipping yourself when you haven’t done anything wrong.
Tbh the reason governments world wide are staying out of it is for sensible reasons, Islamic extremism is the scourge of modern times and it’s important that they are wiped out in Gaza.Governments know this.So there will be indignation expressed and so on, but that’s all.

Closer to home, extremism (not necessarily Islamic) is a threat. Most racist, anti-Islamic and antisemitic extremism is coming from white British-born groups.

Globally, Islamic extremist ideology stands no chance of being eradicated, but it will continue to be used as an excuse to kill innocent people.

Yes, it's been pointed out on Aids already, I don't have a problem being corrected. Life is too short.

Yes. It was from the heart and not every word checked.

Wyllow3

David49

So we are ignoring Sudan which is currently the worst crisis.

Well that's our racism for you from all strata of UK society

The Sudan was part of the combined British and Egyptian Empires: people are black Africans, part of a continent carved up by European nations:

they were only after all (sarcasm button firmly on) "Natives"

we, the Great White Leaders Bringing Civilisation and Missionaries, did send some thoughtful and well intentioned people, but also sent our cast off aristocrats, our greedy business people, we brought them Aids, but the US have defunded initiatives to help:

we turned their communities and subsistence "grow your own food" into industrial agriculture for cheap food flown over polluting the atmosphere....

The education we offered was a white history and we cast them off in a hurry in just a few mostly post WW2 years, such a hurry ...

....that the vacuums left in power were often like in Zimbabwe and Sudan (not always, look at Botswana)

rapid and ill thought through attempts at establishing an imposed democracy failed and what followed was tyranny by fighting for a tyranny:

the right scweam and scweam at the very thought of any responsibility or reparations

And its easier to wring hands and say "how awful" and then cut aid budgets further

It's because they are black. We opened our hearts and front doors to Ukrainians - gosh they are white Europeans - when as you say yourself David....

no one mentions it.

There are a few erroneous statements in that post.

Aveline

But there is always a famine in Africa. My whole life I've been contributing to one or another appeal for children starving in Africa!! Why can't people live in peace? Why can't Israel see how their relentless bullying has led to this situation. I despair of people - well, men really. They seem compelled to fight.

Aveline, you've said what I want to say and more succinctly.

I mentioned this on another thread - I can remember my mother telling me to eat up my dinner all those years ago because children in India and Africa were starving, and giving me 2s to take to Sunday School for money for charities which were helping.
The famine in Ethiopia
Civil wars
Genocides.

It is depressing.

We cannot eliminate evil from the world, sadly.

What’s with all this silly being ashamed stuff?Nobody can do anything about conflicts in the Middle East.It’s like wanting to wear a hair shirt or whipping yourself when you haven’t done anything wrong.
Tbh the reason governments world wide are staying out of it is for sensible reasons, Islamic extremism is the scourge of modern times and it’s important that they are wiped out in Gaza.Governments know this.So there will be indignation expressed and so on, but that’s all.

Quote Oreo Fri 22-Aug-25 21:53:37
Babs03
I think those who defend the actions of the Israeli government have deeply entrenched prejudices that prevent them from seeing the suffering of a people they see as ‘less than’ themselves and of course Israelis.
Is ironically much the same as antisemitism.
And ironically those that don’t defend the actions of the Israeli government also have deeply entrenched prejudices!

Yes, I agree Oreo

foxie48

REKA I'm well aware of the situation faced by Jews in many Arab countries following the creation of Israel and the Nakba which led to thousands of Palestinians being forced out of their homeland. Both were wrong IMO but neither justifies the current treatment of Palestinians in Gaza, or the West Bank for that matter. The behaviour of Hamas doesn't justify the deliberate starving of Palestinians either. I have yet to see anyone on this thread support the actions of Hamas, I certainly don't, and I totally condemn the actions of the Netanyahu government which have gone far beyond legitimate self defence.

Agree with this and will add that all the thousands of Palestinians who became refugees in neighbouring countries now have no right to return. Yet any Jewish person from around the world can go to Israel and be given citizenship.
Certainly Netanyahus attempt to ‘allow’ Palestinians to leave Gaza will result in ‘no right to return’ as well.

Babs03

I think those who defend the actions of the Israeli government have deeply entrenched prejudices that prevent them from seeing the suffering of a people they see as ‘less than’ themselves and of course Israelis.
Is ironically much the same as antisemitism.

And ironically those that don’t defend the actions of the Israeli government also have deeply entrenched prejudices!

I agree with Whitewave and I feel rather ashamed that I have done nothing practical to protest what is happening in Gaza. It is, as she says, absolutely shameful that the world is sitting by and watching a whole people being starved and terrorised.

The only thing I can think to do is to write to my local Labour MP and express my disgust at the lack of meaningful action from our government. Not just some military assistance, but all military assistance to Israel should, in my opinion, cease.