Would you fly a flag for your country?

Yes the plebs shouldn't be allowed flags obviously.

Primrose53

Think about all the English flags at royal events, at football matches and music concerts all over the country.

We stayed at a large hotel on Corfu a couple of years ago and it had flags from just about every country flying on the roof. It was good to see.

Some of these are the right sort of place for flags, but primarily I'd like to see them at Parliament, County Halls, royal residences etc. I think there is a dignity to the flag in the appropriate place.

I don't like the self-important and shabby feel to flags on lampposts, or flag graffiti - which is also horrible and demeaning.
These ones are a signifier (to me) of insularity, and small mindedness and, even worse, now are our flag has been warped by angry thugs claiming it as their own and pasting, fixing and painting it everywhere it seems.

Same as you telling people they lay themselves open to being assumed racist.
I don't assume they are racist.
When people use the term far right about podcasts, public figures etc, I now go and listen to those people, I have found some fascinating articulate people who aren't of course far right, I have also found some unpleasant idiots, but certainly I pay little attention to that term.

Galaxy

Nobody but nobody listens to the term far right anymore, it has been rendered utterly meaningless.

Aaah. You’re the mouthpiece for 66+ million people then?

Yes Terribull is a fantastic writer. Calm and articulate.

Sago

So when I raise my flag do I become a member of the far right?

You’d certainly lay yourself open to being assumed to be one.

Particularly if you were adding to an outbreak of flag flying in your area.

Nobody but nobody listens to the term far right anymore, it has been rendered utterly meaningless.

TerriBull

As with the Cool Britannia movement of the '90s when the Union Jack became a symbol of much of that, a couple of decades before, it was also in evidence as part of the mid sixties Swinging London scene. I can remember my 13 year old self and friends walking around with Union Jack carrier bags, there was certainly no association at that age with a nationalistic fervour it was, as with Gerry Halliwell's dress, 30 years hence, a mere fashion statement.

My step daughter has a next door neighbour who has a Union Jack flag in his garden, she reacts to that with much eye rolling, and although she and I get on really well, she is at times intolerant of other people's foibles. Because that's all it is with him, he is quiet mild mannered person, a little old fashioned maybe, who evidently likes the flag. Personally I have no inclination to stick a flag pole and fly our national flag in my garden, it wouldn't be my thing, but I defend the right of others to want to do that.

Posters have commented, depending where these displays are, they could be a distraction for the motorists. I can see that point also. In fact when I've seen the rainbow crossings rolled out at various points around the country, my feelings are "absolute over the top lunacy and a complete distraction for the motorists and quite possible unsafe, in moving away from the traditional black and white denoting a pedestrian crossing could lead to accidents because of their ambiguity. Why and what are they there for?" I have no problem with anyone else's sexuality and thank goodness they have equal rights now when they were an oppressed minority, but when I enter a business such as shop or building society, I don't wish to be reminded of the fact that they are supporting Pride, it's irrelevant to me as a customer. There are a lot of other people who have suffered at the hands of others in their lives, children who were abused in state care, girls who were and have been trafficked to name but two. Where are their flags and regalia.? The whole Pride month has become a massive never ending, cause celebre, in the way councils and businesses have shoved it in everyone's face. Pride/Palestinian/Ukrainian/regional or even as one Birmingham resident posted on the deleted thread, other nation's flags, such as the Pakistan one. So why not our own national flag then? I think at times there has been a reluctance even on official buildings not to fly it, just in case in some bureaucrat's eyes, "it might just cause offence" There has at times and in some places in the country been a suppression of an overt display of national identity and I'm afraid there's a perfect storm right now of anger surrounding all of that and the perception that some feel second class citizens in their own country in the way they are ignored. In some instances, not all, there has been a racist overtone. Simultaneously there is this justified reasoning, lets reclaim the national flag, without the racist connotations, but as a symbol of pride and national identity which is very prevalent in the visibility of flag flying in other countries around the world.

Am reposting this comment as it’s so good! You should be a columnist TerriBull.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Sago

So when I raise my flag do I become a member of the far right?

That is for you to decide.

But be in no doubt that it is having real life consequences for minority groups in the U.K.

According to the anti-extremist groups Hope Not Hate and Stand Up to Racism, the apparently spontaneous campaign has in fact been organised by well-known far-right figures.

Operation Raise the Colours’ was never about flags, it’s about giving confidence to racists and fascists to target refugees and migrants”.

refugee and even minority communities are experiencing real consequences, illustrated by countless small but terrifying incidents. In Redcar, North Yorkshire, a black man filmed playing with his white granddaughters has been racially abused and falsely called a paedophile after the short video clip was amplified online by the far-right activist Tommy Robinson. In east Belfast, a small group of vigilantes have been seeking out dark-skinned men to shout abuse at or demand to see their identity documents.

Refugee Council’s chief executive, Enver Solomon, said some food banks that previously served all in need were now turning away perceived “foreigners”. He also described meeting an African man in his 60s in north-east England who had been attacked by a group of men – his arm was broken – and was terrified of leaving his home.

Paul Jackson, a professor of history at the University of Northampton whose work includes a focus on far-right extremism, says: “What I find quite concerning is that it’s creating an opportunity for the far right to grow. We’ve seen Labour politicians be supportive in principle of concern around protests at migration hotels, leaning into the populist right. We’ve seen Reform politicians very strongly legitimise these concerns.

“There’s a lot of concern about the emboldenment of the far right, and also the limited voices within the political mainstream calling for a different narrative around issues of migration. It would be good to see a little more moral leadership rather than pandering.”

Jackson identifies a number of factors behind the current situation, including the ascent of Donald Trump in the US. One fundamental factor, he says, is a collapse in trust in government responses to asylum and migration.

“We’ve seen over the last generation a breakdown in trust in government policymaking around migration, and I think that’s partly thanks to mainstream politicians’ failure to speak truthfully on this issue.”

Politics may be tilting right and the voices of those opposed to migration may be louder, but The long-term trends in British society on tolerance of people across ethnic and faith lines are powerfully and strongly in a pro-tolerance, pro-liberal direction” – and markedly stronger in the UK than elsewhere in Europe or the US.

No voice has been more striking on this than the family of Bebe King, one of the girls murdered in Southport, who hit out at the “despicable” actions of the far right who had “tried to make political gain from our tragedy”.

Being picky here, Casdon, (!!) , though I take the point that we are all affected differently by flapping movements, I too only mentioned it because of the example given. Isn't Manchester to Essex along the A1? I didn't think that road, or any other motorway, had continuous lampposts along the route? Where have they found poles to drape their flags which cause distraction?
I live in a seaside area. If drivers were distracted everytime a pesky seagull dive bombed past, there be trouble. After 2 minutes you get used to it!

I have an American friend who married a British man and has lived here for 20 years.
She has a collection of flags which she displays proudly at what she feels is the appropriate time.
An American flag on July 4th, an English flag on St George's day, a union jack for the coronation etc.
As she is of English and Greek heritage, the Greek flag comes out too. She also has the flag of Ukraine amongst her collection.

I'm not a great flag waver but I am a proud Brit, albeit one who is half Italian and I do have a few small flags in my home.
I think it's a great shame that our flag has become a symbol of the far right .
In 1946 my father and mother drove through Europe en route to Italy to visit my grandparents, in a van with a large union jack attached to it.
They were stopped several times on their journey through France, offered food and wine and given a warm welcome.
How times have changed.

So when I raise my flag do I become a member of the far right?

As with the Cool Britannia movement of the '90s when the Union Jack became a symbol of much of that, a couple of decades before, it was also in evidence as part of the mid sixties Swinging London scene. I can remember my 13 year old self and friends walking around with Union Jack carrier bags, there was certainly no association at that age with a nationalistic fervour it was, as with Gerry Halliwell's dress, 30 years hence, a mere fashion statement.

My step daughter has a next door neighbour who has a Union Jack flag in his garden, she reacts to that with much eye rolling, and although she and I get on really well, she is at times intolerant of other people's foibles. Because that's all it is with him, he is quiet mild mannered person, a little old fashioned maybe, who evidently likes the flag. Personally I have no inclination to stick a flag pole and fly our national flag in my garden, it wouldn't be my thing, but I defend the right of others to want to do that.

Posters have commented, depending where these displays are, they could be a distraction for the motorists. I can see that point also. In fact when I've seen the rainbow crossings rolled out at various points around the country, my feelings are "absolute over the top lunacy and a complete distraction for the motorists and quite possible unsafe, in moving away from the traditional black and white denoting a pedestrian crossing could lead to accidents because of their ambiguity. Why and what are they there for?" I have no problem with anyone else's sexuality and thank goodness they have equal rights now when they were an oppressed minority, but when I enter a business such as shop or building society, I don't wish to be reminded of the fact that they are supporting Pride, it's irrelevant to me as a customer. There are a lot of other people who have suffered at the hands of others in their lives, children who were abused in state care, girls who were and have been trafficked to name but two. Where are their flags and regalia.? The whole Pride month has become a massive never ending, cause celebre, in the way councils and businesses have shoved it in everyone's face. Pride/Palestinian/Ukrainian/regional or even as one Birmingham resident posted on the deleted thread, other nation's flags, such as the Pakistan one. So why not our own national flag then? I think at times there has been a reluctance even on official buildings not to fly it, just in case in some bureaucrat's eyes, "it might just cause offence" There has at times and in some places in the country been a suppression of an overt display of national identity and I'm afraid there's a perfect storm right now of anger surrounding all of that and the perception that some feel second class citizens in their own country in the way they are ignored. In some instances, not all, there has been a racist overtone. Simultaneously there is this justified reasoning, lets reclaim the national flag, without the racist connotations, but as a symbol of pride and national identity which is very prevalent in the visibility of flag flying in other countries around the world.

Casdon

The reason I mentioned flags on lampposts is because when they are blown by the wind they obstruct the vision because they are on the carriageway. Those banners which fit flush to the lamppost aren’t distracting, but flapping flags are, to me anyway.

I agree about the possibility of flags flapping in the wind being a distraction for drivers. Also, as other posters have mentioned, it is against the law to hang a flag on a lamppost without the permission of the Local Authority.

The reason I mentioned flags on lampposts is because when they are blown by the wind they obstruct the vision because they are on the carriageway. Those banners which fit flush to the lamppost aren’t distracting, but flapping flags are, to me anyway.

Drivers have distractions anyway in some parts of the country - but have to learn to tune them out.
Yes, my brain quickly interprets what is a genuine hazard and what is part of the, even unusual, scenery. I wouldn't be distracted throughout a 4 hour car journey!

growstuff

Oreo

Casdon

Roads are not the place for any distractions, surely? Standardised road signs, including zebra crossings, are standardised because it makes them safer. Flags on lamp posts, painted roads etc just cause accidents because they are distractions.

I would agree about road signs and roundabouts they should be left alone.
Not so lamp posts as my own town festoons or used to, EU countries flags on them all Summer long.
Who bothers to look at lamp posts when driving.Councils have also bedecked lamp posts with Pride flags at times.

My daughter drove from Manchester to Essex to see me today. She didn't know anything about the online initiative to fly flags, but noticed them. She said they were a distraction.

Drivers have distractions anyway in some parts of the country - but have to learn to tune them out.

Probably people on both "sides of the divide" get distracted at road signs when they are in Wales or, presumably, Scotland (ie I've not been there for decades). I think it happens in Cornwall too (ditto - not been there for decades). It's part of the reason I found myself struggling with re-learning to drive recently - having to skim past the first part of the sign to read the bit applicable to me (ie because I'm in Wales and so had to skim down to the English part). Probably/I know there are people who object to the English part of signs being there - but have to accept there'd be more road accidents if there weren't (because of all the people who would be unable to read road signs if there wasn't English there).

So - yep....people just have to learn to tune out anything they see as distracting when they're driving.

CariadAgain

rafichagran

I don't understand this need/want to fly the flag either. I was driving home after meeting my son before he went to the stadium of the football club he supports, I stopped at a Zebra crossing and there was the white stripes defaced by a red Cross.

I am sorry to say the English flag is being high jacked by hooligans, thugs, and racists. I don't feel comfortable about this. English people were never interested in the flags before.

In fairness - saying we were never interested in our flag before - we never had foreign men trying to tell us how (not) to dress before in our own country (1. the woman on the media that was told by middle Eastern men not to dress our way in London the other day 2. one of us reporting on a thread yesterday that foreign men had tried to tell her off for dressing our way - ie in a sleeveless dress). 3. A tv programme I watched recently saw Stacy Dooley being "told off" by a Muslim woman for dressing our way!!)

We never had mass gatherings of Muslim men parading along streets beating their chests before or public areas having religious Muslim gatherings. Just when did the Muslim call to prayer start ringing out in our cities - disturbing the peace and quiet in our own homes?

This is a large part of why we're now putting up our flags - to make it plain that they're in a wrong country for that sort of behaviour affecting us. It's our country and so we do not, for instance, get told off for dressing in our way. We do not expect to feel wary of an unexpected "pass" being made at our women and girls or worse.

The message is "Our country = our British way of life".

That is an excellent post, thank you 👏👏👏👏👏 the flag flying is a way of trying to get this government to stop irregular immigration into the UK by showing the strength of feeling and I hope is effective.

It’s not usual in Wales for people to fly their flags in their gardens except on special days, and as it’s a symbol of Welsh identity only people who know nothing about the history of Wales would try to use it as anything else - bearing in mind use grew as a result of Plaid Cymru appropriating it in the 1930s! The same applies in Scotland. So no, the far right won’t be able to appropriate something the Welsh people already own.

CariadAgain

rafichagran

I don't understand this need/want to fly the flag either. I was driving home after meeting my son before he went to the stadium of the football club he supports, I stopped at a Zebra crossing and there was the white stripes defaced by a red Cross.

I am sorry to say the English flag is being high jacked by hooligans, thugs, and racists. I don't feel comfortable about this. English people were never interested in the flags before.

In fairness - saying we were never interested in our flag before - we never had foreign men trying to tell us how (not) to dress before in our own country (1. the woman on the media that was told by middle Eastern men not to dress our way in London the other day 2. one of us reporting on a thread yesterday that foreign men had tried to tell her off for dressing our way - ie in a sleeveless dress). 3. A tv programme I watched recently saw Stacy Dooley being "told off" by a Muslim woman for dressing our way!!)

We never had mass gatherings of Muslim men parading along streets beating their chests before or public areas having religious Muslim gatherings. Just when did the Muslim call to prayer start ringing out in our cities - disturbing the peace and quiet in our own homes?

This is a large part of why we're now putting up our flags - to make it plain that they're in a wrong country for that sort of behaviour affecting us. It's our country and so we do not, for instance, get told off for dressing in our way. We do not expect to feel wary of an unexpected "pass" being made at our women and girls or worse.

The message is "Our country = our British way of life".

And that folks is why we look at the flag flying with such nervousness.

rafichagran

I don't understand this need/want to fly the flag either. I was driving home after meeting my son before he went to the stadium of the football club he supports, I stopped at a Zebra crossing and there was the white stripes defaced by a red Cross.

I am sorry to say the English flag is being high jacked by hooligans, thugs, and racists. I don't feel comfortable about this. English people were never interested in the flags before.

In fairness - saying we were never interested in our flag before - we never had foreign men trying to tell us how (not) to dress before in our own country (1. the woman on the media that was told by middle Eastern men not to dress our way in London the other day 2. one of us reporting on a thread yesterday that foreign men had tried to tell her off for dressing our way - ie in a sleeveless dress). 3. A tv programme I watched recently saw Stacy Dooley being "told off" by a Muslim woman for dressing our way!!)

We never had mass gatherings of Muslim men parading along streets beating their chests before or public areas having religious Muslim gatherings. Just when did the Muslim call to prayer start ringing out in our cities - disturbing the peace and quiet in our own homes?

This is a large part of why we're now putting up our flags - to make it plain that they're in a wrong country for that sort of behaviour affecting us. It's our country and so we do not, for instance, get told off for dressing in our way. We do not expect to feel wary of an unexpected "pass" being made at our women and girls or worse.

The message is "Our country = our British way of life".

I feel the need to fly the UK for identification purposes. My car has one on the number plate, my dog has one as a collar tag, my DGD has one as a complete suitcase.

I don't feel the need to have a flag flying on my house, but I would see nothing wrong in doing this, and, unlike some, I exhibit tolerance for anyone who wants to. Just like people enjoy having a flag tablecloth and flag napkins, flag biscuit tins etc. And yes, undoubtedly, a feeling of pride, which is also fine.

I'm certainly not led by the nose by anyone on this, give me credit, I'm a maverick.

And keeping this lighthearted, I'm pleased my town in France is happy to join in with the international custom of flag flying too!

Allsorts

See loads of English flags when matches played and long may it continue.
I am not Welsh but surely what a very tiny minority do is not representative if Wales, so keep flying your Welsh flag, it's your right and heritage.
Don't let any one bully anyone into thinking different.

Totally agree

See loads of English flags when matches played and long may it continue.
I am not Welsh but surely what a very tiny minority do is not representative if Wales, so keep flying your Welsh flag, it's your right and heritage.
Don't let any one bully anyone into thinking different.

On walking thorough the High Road yesterday I saw lots of English Flags,

I have no idea whether the homes displaying them were racist or supporting the English Roses Rugby Team?

Nor would anyone on here…