Angela Rayner - 3 homes now

Allira

Whitewavemark2

escaped

Whitewavemark2

As an aside GSM was a conveyancing solicitor and not an authority on tax. You would be very ill- advised to take advice on such a complicated issue from a conveyancing solicitor.

We did have a tax expert for a short period - silverbrooks

As an aside, no one on here said anything about taking advice on tax affairs from Germanshepherdsmum. I think the words used were along the lines of being interested to hear the type of recommendations GSM would give AR when purchasing a property.

Well that’s ok then 🙄

Actually, a solicitor who deals with the laws regarding house sales and purchases should be up to date with changes in the law regarding stamp duty etc.
If not, they could cause untold problems to their clients.

This is a complicated case, and the conveyancing solicitors who dealt with Rayner’s case have said that it is too complicated for a conveyancing solicitor.

You need tax expert.

ronib

escaped

So, is PaynesGrey the old Germanshepherdsmum then? He pister sounds knowledgeable. I'm confused, not that takes much here!
If so, I'm delighted! Rock on!
Maybe a Christmas cruise coming up? 😆 🥳

It’s silverbrooks reincarnated not GSM. She’s probably got more sense than to want to rejoin? escaped
Basic reading skills apply?

Thanks for the explanation.

I would be surprised if a competent professional had steered her wrongly on this but queries do sometimes get pushed to junior, less experienced members of staff and wrong advice is given.

I wondered that too.

My thinking...... I guess there's solicitors, and solicitors.

We've sold a number of properties and businesses over the years, and IF it was a sale beyond the norm, (where we also owned a business or had a trust in place), then we employed the best lawyers whose firm had experts in all areas. There were a lot of complex questions.

Our last move to the coast, however, was dealt with online by a lightweight conveyancing company who asked nothing. It didn't matter as our other assets were no longer relevant, most having been offloaded. I assume the big difference in AR's case lies in the issue with the involvement in the young son's trust? As someone said, a year later, when the son was 18, might have helped and been correct?

Is there not a yes/no tick box that says, do you have interests in any other properties, or am I dreaming?

Whatever the outcome, I hope she and her family are left alone.

escaped

So, is PaynesGrey the old Germanshepherdsmum then? He pister sounds knowledgeable. I'm confused, not that takes much here!
If so, I'm delighted! Rock on!
Maybe a Christmas cruise coming up? 😆 🥳

It’s silverbrooks reincarnated not GSM. She’s probably got more sense than to want to rejoin? escaped
Basic reading skills apply?

He pister = the poster
Told you I'm excited! 🍾

So, is PaynesGrey the old Germanshepherdsmum then? He pister sounds knowledgeable. I'm confused, not that takes much here!
If so, I'm delighted! Rock on!
Maybe a Christmas cruise coming up? 😆 🥳

If one is given advice by a tax professional about something like this, will it be in writing?

If not, how can anything be proved?

Also, do they (tax advisors) have liability insurance to cover mistakes in advice?

Allira

fancythat

Allira

One point which comes over loud and clear is that if an MP, Secretary of State for Housing and Deputy Prime Minister, does not understand the rules and regulations regarding second homes, trusts and stamp duty when she and her fellow MPs are the ones who make the rules, what hope have ordinary members of the public to understand what is correct?

Sadlt, I came to the conlclusion about 15 years ago, that MPs dont know anywhere near as much about things in general, as I used to think prior to that.

My pivotal point came, in I think a conservative government, when a Minister was shuffled around in about 6 departments in little over a year . something like that.
He ended up being Minister for Northern Ireland.

It was at that point that I thought, hang on, an MP cannot possibly hope to know lots about 6 different departments. That is virtually impossible.

I do understand that Ministers are advised by civil servants and cannot be expected to know everything about their new Departments instantly (not that they always listen to career civil servants who usually do know exactly what they're talking about!). However, how can MPs pass laws if they don't understand them?

As I wrote on this thread, or maybe anotherrec ently[and the post was answered bu David something]
someone loses a court case
they appeal and lose again
they appeal again and win.

how can that be?
David answered that the law gets ebtter interprented further up the line.

Which means that even legal people themselves are not that great sometimes.
Going by what David said.

Quite honestly I don’t think some of you deserve someone like that choosing to be a public servant.
Choosing to be a public servant?

MPs are not public servants.
They are elected representatives, yes, but only elected by a proportion of their own constituents.

We do not have to feel any gratitude whatsoever.

That was me, Whitewavemark2. A while back, I deleted my account in order to take a break. On re-joining, I was told you cannot re-use a former username.

I wasn’t never involved much with SDLT. The higher rate for SDLT was only introduced on 1 April 2016. I was working in a very different specialism by that time.

However, I can read and understand very complex legislation and can find my way around the online HMRC manuals. I’ve already posted my take on what has happened upthread.

In theory, this should all have come to light eventually once Rayner had submitted her 2024/25 and 2025/26 tax returns, but the online deadlines for those are not until 31 January 2026 and 31 January 2027 respectively.

In a perverse way, the media furore have done her a favour in allowing her to address this matter sooner, at least saving her some interest on late payment of SDLT. If she pays up now, she’ll probably be charged around £1,200 in interest (charged at 4 points over base rate so currently 8%). If it hadn’t come to light until after 31 January 2027, she’d be paying a lot more and would also have missed the deadline for correcting an error in a SLDT return. The time linit for that is 12 months after the 14 day filing deadline after the transaction,. That would ahve been mid May 2025 so May 2026 in this case. There may also be a penalty for carelessness.

Small compensation for the amount of damage this may have done to her career. It looks like we may find out later today.

If she had a decent tax accountant who is conversant with her financial affairs this should not have happened had she taken advice. I would be surprised if a competent professional had steered her wrongly on this but queries do sometimes get pushed to junior, less experienced members of staff and wrong advice is given.

Even if not a specialist, a qualified tax accountant should have a good working knowledge of trusts including the legislation pertaining to assets held in trust for minors.

That’s the big x factor in this. Was she advised correctly about how the trust property meant she had to pay higher rate SDLT, but either didn’t understand what she was told or chose to ignore it, so ended up telling the conveyancers who completed the SDLT1 that she only owned one property.

In her favour, she is taking steps to rectify this well within the time limits allowed and well ahead of when she has to file online tax returns.

eazybee

If this woman had a shred of integrity she would offer her resignation.
It would show she understands the serious of what she has done, but also make Starmer take some responsibility for his decisions.
If he accepts, he will expose the full power of the unions, who put AR in a position she is so unsuited to, but contribute so much to the funding of the Labour party.
If he refuses, he will expose himself as two tier Keir, no backbone, a lawyer not a leader.

A position she is unsuited to? Have you ever heard her at PMQT when she deputises for the PM? Do people not comprehend what an amazing person she must be to rise to the position she is now in given her poor start in life? Quite honestly I don’t think some of you deserve someone like that choosing to be a public servant.

Allira it’s all set out online for anyone to read. Trusts … Charlie Rayner is 17 so it’s a pity this house move wasn’t orchestrated next year? 18 years and it would have been legal.

Allira

Whitewavemark2

escaped

Whitewavemark2

As an aside GSM was a conveyancing solicitor and not an authority on tax. You would be very ill- advised to take advice on such a complicated issue from a conveyancing solicitor.

We did have a tax expert for a short period - silverbrooks

As an aside, no one on here said anything about taking advice on tax affairs from Germanshepherdsmum. I think the words used were along the lines of being interested to hear the type of recommendations GSM would give AR when purchasing a property.

Well that’s ok then 🙄

Actually, a solicitor who deals with the laws regarding house sales and purchases should be up to date with changes in the law regarding stamp duty etc.
If not, they could cause untold problems to their clients.

And, despite your comment that Germanshepherdsmum was a conveyancing solicitor, I'm not sure that was correct. If she was, I'm sure she would know all the up-to-date intricacies of stamp duty etc.

To know all the finer details of the taxation system one would probably need the expert advice of an accountant who has also extensive knowledge of tax laws, which requires more years of training on top of accountancy qualifications. Even employees at HMRC seem confused about tax.

An elderly journalist said about a year ago on TV that the calibre of MPs now is sadly lacking and many aren't qualified to do the job.

Changes/increases to stamp duty on second homes were introduced by Rachel Reeves in January 2025.

Not holding my breath but I think she will be gone by teatime today.

She must realise now that she is not cut out for the job as DPM and definitely not as Housing Secretary. Even if all this tax business is too complicated for her, she could easily have found answers from the experts if she chose to. Ignorance is no excuse for a DPM.

Basic reading skills apply?

Whitewavemark2

escaped

Whitewavemark2

As an aside GSM was a conveyancing solicitor and not an authority on tax. You would be very ill- advised to take advice on such a complicated issue from a conveyancing solicitor.

We did have a tax expert for a short period - silverbrooks

As an aside, no one on here said anything about taking advice on tax affairs from Germanshepherdsmum. I think the words used were along the lines of being interested to hear the type of recommendations GSM would give AR when purchasing a property.

Well that’s ok then 🙄

Actually, a solicitor who deals with the laws regarding house sales and purchases should be up to date with changes in the law regarding stamp duty etc.
If not, they could cause untold problems to their clients.

fancythat

Allira

One point which comes over loud and clear is that if an MP, Secretary of State for Housing and Deputy Prime Minister, does not understand the rules and regulations regarding second homes, trusts and stamp duty when she and her fellow MPs are the ones who make the rules, what hope have ordinary members of the public to understand what is correct?

Sadlt, I came to the conlclusion about 15 years ago, that MPs dont know anywhere near as much about things in general, as I used to think prior to that.

My pivotal point came, in I think a conservative government, when a Minister was shuffled around in about 6 departments in little over a year . something like that.
He ended up being Minister for Northern Ireland.

It was at that point that I thought, hang on, an MP cannot possibly hope to know lots about 6 different departments. That is virtually impossible.

I do understand that Ministers are advised by civil servants and cannot be expected to know everything about their new Departments instantly (not that they always listen to career civil servants who usually do know exactly what they're talking about!). However, how can MPs pass laws if they don't understand them?

Integrity - that’s a good word. Been missing in politics for years? Outdated concept?
Political office is for the upwardly mobile get rich quick brigade on the whole?

If this woman had a shred of integrity she would offer her resignation.
It would show she understands the serious of what she has done, but also make Starmer take some responsibility for his decisions.
If he accepts, he will expose the full power of the unions, who put AR in a position she is so unsuited to, but contribute so much to the funding of the Labour party.
If he refuses, he will expose himself as two tier Keir, no backbone, a lawyer not a leader.

escaped

Whitewavemark2

As an aside GSM was a conveyancing solicitor and not an authority on tax. You would be very ill- advised to take advice on such a complicated issue from a conveyancing solicitor.

We did have a tax expert for a short period - silverbrooks

As an aside, no one on here said anything about taking advice on tax affairs from Germanshepherdsmum. I think the words used were along the lines of being interested to hear the type of recommendations GSM would give AR when purchasing a property.

Well that’s ok then 🙄

Allsorts

I think its do as I say not as I do, the fact that strong supporters think that OK as everyone does it, shows the lack of integrity they have, she was found out so confessed for damage limitation, only reason she's come clean. What chance does this country have if this is the best we have? Rachel Reeves and her do women no favours. One decent one is Jess Philips.

.

I agree with you that I dont think whether man or woman makes any difference. From what I can see anyway.

Allira

One point which comes over loud and clear is that if an MP, Secretary of State for Housing and Deputy Prime Minister, does not understand the rules and regulations regarding second homes, trusts and stamp duty when she and her fellow MPs are the ones who make the rules, what hope have ordinary members of the public to understand what is correct?

Sadlt, I came to the conlclusion about 15 years ago, that MPs dont know anywhere near as much about things in general, as I used to think prior to that.

My pivotal point came, in I think a conservative government, when a Minister was shuffled around in about 6 departments in little over a year . something like that.
He ended up being Minister for Northern Ireland.

It was at that point that I thought, hang on, an MP cannot possibly hope to know lots about 6 different departments. That is virtually impossible.

Whitewavemark2

As an aside GSM was a conveyancing solicitor and not an authority on tax. You would be very ill- advised to take advice on such a complicated issue from a conveyancing solicitor.

We did have a tax expert for a short period - silverbrooks

As an aside, no one on here said anything about taking advice on tax affairs from Germanshepherdsmum. I think the words used were along the lines of being interested to hear the type of recommendations GSM would give AR when purchasing a property.