“Migrants are more important than residents" A statement that the Labour party will live to regret?

Grantanow

All this is a short term mess created by the Tories, being exploited by Reform (and others who should know better) and which Labour must clear up.

The real policy issue is that when the Refugee Convention was formulated there were only some 2 billion people in the workd and now there are over 8 billion with more pressing reasons to move around than before. Putting out a Welcome mat to all and sundry isn't the answer. Nor is slagging off both genuinely concerned citizens (whether manipulated by the Far Right or not) and genuine asylum seekers.

It requires careful thought about the future as the world's population grows (and some difficult jnternational negotiations) but alas our politicians aren't up to the job and can't see beyond the next GE.

Totally agree 👏👏👏

fancythat

And who exactly are English, Uk or British[I never get my head around that] MPs actually serving?
Who is the real boss?
Because it is not the voters/uk citizens.

As has been touted for a long while.

Time for me to look up conspiracy theories on this issue.

A government[and can prob include a conservative one in this too] who isnt working for the good of the Uk, is worse than useless.

Sorry if this has been answered - still reading.

English relates just to England
Great Britain relates to the countries on this island, so England, Scotland and Wales
UK relates to Great Britain plus Northern Ireland.

Governance is voted for and passed to the Government. The United Kingdom is an example of a unitary state. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have a degree of autonomous devolved power, but such power is delegated by the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which may enact laws unilaterally altering or abolishing devolution.

I know of no country that has direct democracy as you seem to suggest, although you sounds more like you want a Dictator but only one who agrees with you.

All this is a short term mess created by the Tories, being exploited by Reform (and others who should know better) and which Labour must clear up.

The real policy issue is that when the Refugee Convention was formulated there were only some 2 billion people in the workd and now there are over 8 billion with more pressing reasons to move around than before. Putting out a Welcome mat to all and sundry isn't the answer. Nor is slagging off both genuinely concerned citizens (whether manipulated by the Far Right or not) and genuine asylum seekers.

It requires careful thought about the future as the world's population grows (and some difficult jnternational negotiations) but alas our politicians aren't up to the job and can't see beyond the next GE.

MaizieD

As no transcripts of the Appeal court hearing have yet been published it is impossible to know with any certainty precisely what was said, PN.

All commentary on the hearing so far is just interpretation spun to make political points.

I posted a link at 17.34 yesterday, page 2, which was informative.

As no transcripts of the Appeal court hearing have yet been published it is impossible to know with any certainty precisely what was said, PN.

All commentary on the hearing so far is just interpretation spun to make political points.

GrannyGravy13

I turned on BBC 10pm news last night, and the phrase in the OP was used by a MP (no idea who he was, I didn’t have my glasses on)

If the Governments legal team did not say those actual words, it was certainly implied in their submission.

An alleged implication (which isn't necessarily true) isn't the same as actually saying them. It was probably Chris Philp.

PoliticsNerd

woodenspoon

Can you use google growstuff?

I'm just reading though the posts so have googled the OPs quote. They only appear under this thread on GN. I shall keep reading.

Good luck! If you find anything, let us know. I tried. Eventually, I did find more actual quotes from the judgement, but not a full transcript. From what has been reported so far, the judges did not say use the words in the OP.

PS. They might have used those words, but not in that order (with acknowledgement to the late Eric Morecambe).

I turned on BBC 10pm news last night, and the phrase in the OP was used by a MP (no idea who he was, I didn’t have my glasses on)

If the Governments legal team did not say those actual words, it was certainly implied in their submission.

Spinnaker

Just another complete effing stitch up by Starmer and all his legal cronies - makes me sick. But hey, carry on paying taxpayer 😡😡

If you think a Judge cannot step outside there own preferences, surely we should be getting rid of every one holding a legal position having worked with a Conservative group or shown Conservative leanings as we currently have a Labour government.

This would certainly be the view of those who worship Trump, who is currently trying to demolish the principle of the separation of powers just as you seem to be suggesting.

woodenspoon

Can you use google growstuff?

I'm just reading though the posts so have googled the OPs quote. They only appear under this thread on GN. I shall keep reading.

If only posters would check before they post. The original post was incorrect, has been pointed out by several posters since.

What you're saying is that the law should be guided by populists. The original judgment, which was only interim in any case, incentivised violence. It encouraged people with an agenda to stir up trouble, so that councils could go to court and claim that asylum hotels are the cause of the violence. No, they're not. The people who perpetuate the violence are the cause. Making that kind of claim supports bullies and vigilantes, whoever they are. It's a vary dangerous precedent and ultimately undermines British law.

Incidentally, did you know that the judge in the original hearing, Mr Justice Eyre, stood as a Conservative MP at least three times, so it's likely he isn't impartial.

escaped

MaizieD

escaped

I don't know who said what, I haven't time to search. I'm more concerned with supporting a younger relative, with children, who lives in Epping and is scared witless about repercussion there will be. The situation is highly volatile.
The migrants need to be removed from THAT hotel for everyone's sake. I don't care if they are put them elsewhere, but that place is about to erupt into something nasty.

According to growstuff’s googling ^ In just one month - June 2025 - there were 27 reported cases of violence and sexual offences in Epping town itself.^

As we only know of one alleged offence committed by one asylum seeker from the hotel it seems to me that your relative should worry more about possible danger to their children from the ‘native’ population. Emptying the hotel of asylum seekers won’t eradicate sexual offences in the area.

I think I probably know Epping far better that growstuff without googling figures! (Worked there for 6 years too!) Infact I actually quoted the crime rate on a previous thread.

My comment here was, better for everyone's sake. Do you not think I might not have meant better for the migrants too to be moved on?

Errmm! Strangely enough, I doubt it.

Are you suggesting Essex Police is lying about its crime stats?

fancythat

growstuff

fancythat

Who said people aren't concerned?

You are at least the 3rd poster on GN to seem to argue things one way, yet are actually concerned it seems.

I dont get that way of doing things.
Do you argue against yourself?

Maybe you have difficulty understanding that some things aren't always black or white.

The why not give "balanced" posts, reflecting or saying what you and others are actually| thinking?

If you really want to know what I'm thinking it's that some people are gullible and believe anything which supports their opinion.

If you were to follow my posts, you'd realise that I am more even-handed than that.

I don't give an opinion that often. I'm more concerned with correcting facts. In this case, the premise of the OP is entirely false. It was not stated in court that migrants are more important than residents. That was an interpretation by (amongst others) Chris Philp and Kemi Badenoch, both of whom have a political axe to grind. This was then reported by certain media and misinterpreted by others, who have then repeated the misunderstood message.

Unfortunately, this is how public opinion is manipulated. When a particular group has a loud enough voice (or enough exposure on the BBC etc), it becomes normalised - all because people don't read sources, believe what they want to believe and don't read beyond the first paragraph or so of any article. Propaganda has always worked like that.

MaizieD

escaped

I don't know who said what, I haven't time to search. I'm more concerned with supporting a younger relative, with children, who lives in Epping and is scared witless about repercussion there will be. The situation is highly volatile.
The migrants need to be removed from THAT hotel for everyone's sake. I don't care if they are put them elsewhere, but that place is about to erupt into something nasty.

According to growstuff’s googling ^ In just one month - June 2025 - there were 27 reported cases of violence and sexual offences in Epping town itself.^

As we only know of one alleged offence committed by one asylum seeker from the hotel it seems to me that your relative should worry more about possible danger to their children from the ‘native’ population. Emptying the hotel of asylum seekers won’t eradicate sexual offences in the area.

I think I probably know Epping far better that growstuff without googling figures! (Worked there for 6 years too!) Infact I actually quoted the crime rate on a previous thread.

My comment here was, better for everyone's sake. Do you not think I might not have meant better for the migrants too to be moved on?

MaizieD

escaped

I don't know who said what, I haven't time to search. I'm more concerned with supporting a younger relative, with children, who lives in Epping and is scared witless about repercussion there will be. The situation is highly volatile.
The migrants need to be removed from THAT hotel for everyone's sake. I don't care if they are put them elsewhere, but that place is about to erupt into something nasty.

According to growstuff’s googling ^ In just one month - June 2025 - there were 27 reported cases of violence and sexual offences in Epping town itself.^

As we only know of one alleged offence committed by one asylum seeker from the hotel it seems to me that your relative should worry more about possible danger to their children from the ‘native’ population. Emptying the hotel of asylum seekers won’t eradicate sexual offences in the area.

The source was Essex Police. I think I posted the link.

escaped If you want to support your young relative, maybe you could show him/her the data. Any repercussions are more likely to come if the children get involved in the protests, so it would be wise to tell them to stay away. I think most parents teach their children about "stranger danger". Sadly, there have always been a tiny number of dangerous people around and it's as well that all people learn to protect themselves. The asylum hotel is likely to make little difference.

If your relative has a brown or black face, you would be right to be concerned. It hasn't been unknown for bigots to target others from a perceived group. If I had a brown or black face, I'd make sure my phone is always charged and would try not to walk alone. I wouldn't go anywhere near the protests.

eazybee

I would say Starmer is untouchable because of his huge unwarranted majority, unless his own party turns on him, and at present they won't.
Plenty of others to sacrifice: Yvette Cooper, Rachel Reeves and Rayner (although the unions won't allow her be moved). Interesting they are all women.

Politically, he's untouchable for the moment. Nevertheless, it does not mean that he's untouchable legally. This isn't (yet) Trump's America.

Nigel Farage is getting an awful lot of publicity, out of all proportion to the number of seats Reform has in Parliament. Why, when the LibDems (say), outnumber him by such a wide margin?

I would say Starmer is untouchable because of his huge unwarranted majority, unless his own party turns on him, and at present they won't.
Plenty of others to sacrifice: Yvette Cooper, Rachel Reeves and Rayner (although the unions won't allow her be moved). Interesting they are all women.

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?
Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes
Will you give all you can give
So that our banner may advance
Some will fall and some will live
Will you stand up and take your chance?
The blood of the martyrs
Will water the meadows of France
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes

escaped

I don't know who said what, I haven't time to search. I'm more concerned with supporting a younger relative, with children, who lives in Epping and is scared witless about repercussion there will be. The situation is highly volatile.
The migrants need to be removed from THAT hotel for everyone's sake. I don't care if they are put them elsewhere, but that place is about to erupt into something nasty.

According to growstuff’s googling ^ In just one month - June 2025 - there were 27 reported cases of violence and sexual offences in Epping town itself.^

As we only know of one alleged offence committed by one asylum seeker from the hotel it seems to me that your relative should worry more about possible danger to their children from the ‘native’ population. Emptying the hotel of asylum seekers won’t eradicate sexual offences in the area.

Agree with Escaped.

fancythat

Being defensive and attacking does not hide truths.

to growstuff

I don't know who said what, I haven't time to search. I'm more concerned with supporting a younger relative, with children, who lives in Epping and is scared witless about repercussion there will be. The situation is highly volatile.
The migrants need to be removed from THAT hotel for everyone's sake. I don't care if they are put them elsewhere, but that place is about to erupt into something nasty.

Epping is a very pleasant place, surrounded by green land.
It is just outside Greater London so people tend to move there away from the London Boroughs with their highly dense mixed race communities. Hence a conservative controlled local authority.
My understanding is that it was Nigel Farage who said illegal immigrants appear to have more rights than local people. And yes it does look that way.