I thought the Labour party was meant to be the political party for and of the 'woking class'

Plumbers you say. Well we’ve recently had plumbers in our home. Arrived at 8am and left at 7.00 pm. He worked extremely hard and earned every penny in our opinion. Wish there were more like him.

Tony Benn ? Private schooling, inherited a peerage which he fought against and did change the law.
Owned a rather large London property and had inherited a country estate.member of Fabian Society.

Labour Party member

Well on this very thread there have been comments about how the fact that plumbers (they are always used as representatives of the working class ) earn 'good money' as though that is strange.

I agree that the conversation with my friend was a long time ago though - more than 20 years, as we lost touch when we moved away - but I have definitely heard similar sentiments since then. I'm not sure that things have moved on a lot. When Keir Starmer (or Rachel Reeves) mentioned 'working people' there was uproar, and it is Angela Raynor's background that is mentioned before her achievements.

IMO it’s the non-working class we should be more concerned about.

You mean those who cant find jobs?

Doodledog

fancythat

I think it says a lot about attitude to class when people are horrified by the fact that plumbers earn decent money.

tbh, I think your attitude is outdated as well.
Which posters precisely, or which posts and words precisely, have led you to that, I would say, rather outdated attitude?

No, I wasn't talking about you or anyone else in particular. I would have said so or quoted you if I were.

What is it about 'my attitude' that you consider dated?

The first line
"I think it says a lot about attitude to class when people are horrified by the fact that plumbers earn decent money".

In real life I dont know a single person like that.
Cant say I have read that online anywhere either.
And even talking about class at all feels dated.

All seems a bit 10 or 20 years ago to me.

IMO it’s the non-working class we should be more concerned about.
And IMO it’d be an excellent thing if all MPs should be required to have had for at least 5 years, a job that had nothing to do with local government, politics or unions.

MayBee70

Yes let’s have more working class MP’s. Preferably women. So we can mock their accent, poor grammar and clothes sense. And euphorically watch them fall from Grace because they don’t know how to go about legal tax avoidance…

Hear hear!

Well said, growstuff.

Your last sentence particularly resonates. The 'champagne socialist' slur, and the idea that anyone who votes Labour or is a party member or MP should eat gruel and drink beer is very irritating, as is the idea that the better off should vote Tory, or that voting Tory is a sign that someone has 'made it'. People can, and do, think for themselves and vote according to their world view, regardless of their income or occupation.

fancythat

^Why do we have to use a class to define ourselves, I really dislike it?^

Me too.
Hopelessly outdated.

Is a plumber still "working class".
Should Labour be taking a special interest in them?

I don't think Labour does take a special interest in plumbers (or others) based on class. They always talk about 'working people', which I see as including anyone who works for a living and pays income tax (which is usually the context in which 'working people' are mentioned) regardless of how they do so.

I don't know about voters, but LP members are predominantly 'middle class' (graduates with professional jobs) - much more so than CP members.

fancythat

^I think it says a lot about attitude to class when people are horrified by the fact that plumbers earn decent money.^

tbh, I think your attitude is outdated as well.
Which posters precisely, or which posts and words precisely, have led you to that, I would say, rather outdated attitude?

No, I wasn't talking about you or anyone else in particular. I would have said so or quoted you if I were.

What is it about 'my attitude' that you consider dated?

👏👏👏growstuff

There's a problem if the Labour Party is only supposed to be about the "working class".

Firstly, it's not really an appropriate term in today's world, but I'll stick with it for something better.

Claiming that the Labour Party is only for those on the bottom of the pile ignores social mobility. It's precisely because the Labour Party and socialism in general has been successful the most people these days don't live in vermin-infested hovels with poor quality/inadequate food and insecure, poorly paid work.

The lives of those around the average or below income have been transformed over the last century.

Now here's the conundrum. Once people no longer have to struggle for the basics, are they supposed to forget about people worse off than they are? Aren't they supposed to care about social justice or equality? If they have enough money for a new car or a holiday, are they supposed to wear hair shirts and beat themselves with twigs?

If people want to vote Labour (or, more importantly, stand as a Labour MP), do they have to have lived in the slums (even better in a shop doorway or a gutter)? Do they have to have attended Bash Street Comp personally? Do they have to have come from a family which has been on benefits for generations?

It's possible to have a comfortable life but to witness the lives of others and want to do something about it.

MOnica, we may be at cross purposes. I’d expect to pay at least £70. One of my family is a plumber. The company he works for charge £110 call out .
I’m with you on training and running costs. I did mean £40 an hour for the skill level needed is low

Why do we have to use a class to define ourselves, I really dislike it?

Me too.
Hopelessly outdated.

Is a plumber still "working class".
Should Labour be taking a special interest in them?

Why do we have to use a class to define ourselves, I really dislike it?
As soon as someone tells me they’re working class I switch off.
I’m not interested in anyone’s class, I’m just interested in the person they are.
I have a friend who always has to tell people she meets she is from a working class background…….why?

Iam64

Seriously, £40 an hour for s plumber or other highly skilled trades people is, well, Luxury

£40 an hour, roughly £1,600 a week, approximately £77,000 a year (I assume a 46 week year, 4 weeks holiday and 2 weeks to cover illness, waiting in for gasmen, dentist etc).

From £77,000 taake the cost of buying and paying for a van, and all the running cost, plus tools and all sorts of insurance from van to public liability, health protection, professional fees etc. Say, net £50,000.

The median salary (that is a salary where half the population earn more and half earn less) is about ££36,700. For a highly skilled tradesman, who has done an apprenticeship and needs to keep up to date and often work in uncomfortable and inconvenient places, that seems reasonable.

I think it says a lot about attitude to class when people are horrified by the fact that plumbers earn decent money.

tbh, I think your attitude is outdated as well.
Which posters precisely, or which posts and words precisely, have led you to that, I would say, rather outdated attitude?

I think it says a lot about attitude to class when people are horrified by the fact that plumbers earn decent money

I dont know if you are talking about me.

But if me, you have missed my point.

My point is several actually.
1. The op's heading mentions working class.
Always important on a thread to know exactly who we are speaking about.
So, are plumbers still counted as working class?
And who exactly now is.

2.If Labour is supposed tob e about the working class, then should they be looking after shop workers more than plumbers?

3.Society keeps changing.
What was the norm 20 years ago in the Uk, may no longer be so.
So who exactly should Labout be "protecting"?

Or have they worked out too that things have shifted so much that many of their core voters of yesteryear, now earn way above other workers?

I haven't read the whole thread, but "the Labour party being for the woking class" (in the title) is very funny!

Primrose53

Anniebach

Angela Rayner, Alan Johnson, Nye Bevan were supported by
Unions as were other Labour MP’s.

Angela Rayner is female yes ? heaven knows how many MP’s had sex in early teens, Angela was pregnant! ! ! it happens to girls , Angela has been judged much harsher than any male MP

Alan Johnson, his parents died he then lived with his sister, Angela was a carer for her mother,

AJ’s father walked away from the family when Alan was very young. His Mum had to bring up him and his sister alone in slum housing with no support from the father. She became very ill and eventually died when Alan was about 12. His sister brought him up even though she was still a child herself but she did not want him to go into care. A social worker eventually found them better accommodation and their lives improved a bit. He credits his sister in all his memoirs with bringing him up and making him the man he became.

I believe that Wes Streeting had a pretty difficult childhood, too. Just waiting for the daggers to be aimed at him now…

I think it says a lot about attitude to class when people are horrified by the fact that plumbers earn decent money. I remember a conversation ages ago with a friend whose husband was a dentist in the days when there were plentiful NHS surgeries. She was appalled at what they'd paid to have the bathroom tiled, as apparently her husband couldn't earn that much in as short a time. I asked why she felt this was wrong, and she could only mutter something about scarcity and market forces.

Market forces and social changes mean that plumbers and other 'tradies' are now scarce, so can charge more for their services (and will have far more chance of surviving AI than lawyers or accountants, for instance). Why do many people not see this as a welcome change, or at least just as 'natural' as the fact that the same market forces used to mean they were paid less?

As regards politicians, I feel that all sections of society should be represented, and that older signifiers of 'class', such as accent and presentation should be consigned to history. Snide ways of spotting those 'not like us' only ever existed to squash social mobility, and the spite with which the erosion of blatant classism being acceptable has been met by those who have a vested interest in keeping it going.

Iam64

Seriously, £40 an hour for s plumber or other highly skilled trades people is, well, Luxury

If you can get a plumber £40 an hour, you are bloomin lucky!

Seriously, £40 an hour for s plumber or other highly skilled trades people is, well, Luxury

fancythat

I saw an advert for a deputy store manager for Aldi, £16.95 per hour.
Plumbers charge £40 per hour.

I never realised that being a deputy store manager at Aldi required the same level of training and experience as being a Plumber. As they say, every day's a school day on Gransnet.

The thread title made me laugh to think of Labour as the political party for and of the 'woking class.'

Anniebach

AJ’s father walked away from the family when Alan was very young. His Mum had to bring up him and his sister alone in

Quote Primrose53 Sun 07-Sept-25 13:11:55

slum housing with no support from the father. She became very ill and eventually died when Alan was about 12. His sister brought him up even though she was still a child herself but she did not want him to go into care. A social worker eventually found them better accommodation and their lives improved a bit. He credits his sister in all his memoirs with bringing him up and making him the man he became.

Yes, Angela Rayner didn’t have an older sibling, it all fell on her

AR had an older brother actually.