I thought the Labour party was meant to be the political party for and of the 'woking class'

IIndded, if you look at someone like Alan Johnson, he in my view would have been an excellent PM, he understood the working class in a way the left/progressives never could.

I have trouble with the concept of working class nowadays.

Around here anyway, plumbers and traddies earn far more per hour than someone being a radiographer or something else in hospitals, or a teaching assistant etc.

Or are they all "working class"?

I saw an advert for a deputy store manager for Aldi, £16.95 per hour.
Plumbers charge £40 per hour.

Angela Rayner, Alan Johnson, Nye Bevan were supported by
Unions as were other Labour MP’s.

Angela Rayner is female yes ? heaven knows how many MP’s had sex in early teens, Angela was pregnant! ! ! it happens to girls , Angela has been judged much harsher than any male MP

Alan Johnson, his parents died he then lived with his sister, Angela was a carer for her mother,

I have just been catching up on here. What has amazed me is how busy most of you are! You do all kinds of Crafts, look after grandchildren, help neighbours, sort out paperwork, clear out cupboards, visit friends and family, take trips out to places of interest etc! My head spins! How do you fit it all in? I always used to be the one who dashed here and there. I was always making things, and doing a lot of the things I listed above. But that was when I was younger, before ill-health curtailed things a bit. Some of you on here are of a similar age to me, and many have health issues just as I do, but you are still whirling dervishes! I am full of admiration!
That said, if I didn’t sit here reading Gransnet in the morning, I would get more done!
Note to self….. get off bottom and DO stuff!

And you even find time to join clubs!! Wow!

Galaxy

IIndded, if you look at someone like Alan Johnson, he in my view would have been an excellent PM, he understood the working class in a way the left/progressives never could.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Are you on the wrong thread Crossstitchfan ?😁

It is Angela Rayner who has gone on, incessantly, about her deprived childhood, her working class background and her struggle as a single mother. A small point, but her profile now claims that her relationship with the father of her first child lasted from 1995 to 2005, not walking out on her 18th birthday as has been claimed in the past, (and no, I cannot give a reference.) Her meteoric rise was fuelled by the Unions, and her own conduct which has blown it.

I don't think a political party should be considered to represent mainly one section of the population. That was how it originated, but the fact that many Labour MPs do not work in low paid manual jobs is surely an example of equality of opportunity which they supported, so that people of ability may move on to professional occupations should they wish.

There used to be many ex army, and business people who were experienced in running organisations in difficult times; now many come from studying politics at university to working as a political aide, some limited experience as a local councillor and then standing as an MP.
But a party expected to represent only one section of the population is regressive.
There is nothing wrong with being middle class, despite the fact that most people of all classes work to support themselves throughout life.

Just noticed Monica your wording in the OP ‘the woking class’😄 a mistake or?

You forgot to mention, MOnica that the Fabian Society, with a far from 'working class' membership, was influential in helping to set up the Labour Party in the first place. There has always been a tension between its middle class 'socialist' members and the working class, unionised, members.

I think it's dangerous to try to categorise voters choices by 'class'. The Essex town I was brought up in, though containing (inevitably) a preponderance of 'working class' people voted tory consistently for decades. It's only recently dabbled with Lib Dems.

Yes let’s have more working class MP’s. Preferably women. So we can mock their accent, poor grammar and clothes sense. And euphorically watch them fall from Grace because they don’t know how to go about legal tax avoidance…

Many MPs are career politicians who have studied politics as part of their University education unfortunately, some may have worked outside jobs but with industry , the mines and shipping closing all over the country I think the hands on worker politicians who have been union people have gone, Angela Rayner did come up that way she was a young teenager when she had her first child , so yes she is a working class person, I am not saying what she has done is correct but I bet many of us would not know ourselves if we were paying the correct amount of tax on a house purchase and would believe what we were told.

fancythat

I have trouble with the concept of working class nowadays.

Around here anyway, plumbers and traddies earn far more per hour than someone being a radiographer or something else in hospitals, or a teaching assistant etc.

Or are they all "working class"?

We're just reeling at what the decorators must be charging per hour, fancythat

If only we could still do it ourselves!

Galaxy

IIndded, if you look at someone like Alan Johnson, he in my view would have been an excellent PM, he understood the working class in a way the left/progressives never could.

Yes, he would.

David Lammy went to a state-funded school but it was a rather posh one. However, he was brought up in a single parent family. He just doesn't go on about his humble origins and was obviously a bright lad who made the most of his educational opportunities.

Keir Starmer came from a fairly ordinary background as did Shabana Mahmood.

Yvette Copper came from a middle class background as did her husband.

I tend to think the ‘class’ issue relates more to how people live their lives rather than how much money they have. As a working class person myself I have never been invited to a dinner party, which imo is very much a middle class cultural thing. On the other hand I’m not quite Royal family working class , everything in front of me of the telly. Of course this is just my opinion/outlook on things.
I have this discussion with my pal quite often, he’s more working class than me (culturally imo) but he says he is middle class.
All in the eye of the beholder.

As a working class person myself I have never been invited to a dinner party which imo is very much a middle class cultural thing.
Oh!

But aren't we all middle-class now?
Quote from Lord Prescott

What is meant by ‘working class’. It used to mean people who were manual workers, people who got their hands dirty at work. As others have pointed out, skilled workers, engineers, plumbers, tilers, electricians charge £70-100 per hour. They’re well qualified. They earn good money

At the risk of irritating everyone, my experience of families like the one Angela Rayner grew up in that they can’t really be called working class as often we are third generation since anyone went out to work. They’re a benefit claiming class. Yes, often as with Angela Rayner’s family, there will be a chaos linked to mental health type problems.
What’s often lacking is regular school attendance so poor educational achievement. Most working class jobs need basic literacy and numeracy, so the world of work remains unattainable.

I find one of the most shocking things is to suggest Angela grew up in the kind of stable, aspirant, loving working class families, of whufg there are many, it isn’t that she came from ‘humble beginnings’, it’s that she somehow took advantage of surestart to build a life of which she’d no experience

Galaxy

IIndded, if you look at someone like Alan Johnson, he in my view would have been an excellent PM, he understood the working class in a way the left/progressives never could.

He has always been a bit of a hero for me! I have read all his books and he had an extremely poor upbringing in the slums of London, being raised by his 16 year old sister when his single Mum died.

After working as a postman to get to be Home Secretary was a massive achievement. He was always very smart and professional looking and spoke really well unlike AR who had a mouth like a sewer.

fancythat

I have trouble with the concept of working class nowadays.

Around here anyway, plumbers and traddies earn far more per hour than someone being a radiographer or something else in hospitals, or a teaching assistant etc.

Or are they all "working class"?

This is why I always put quotes round the phrase. I think it a nnsensical phrase, anyone who depends on working for their living is'working class'. This includes degree toting people like ma nad my family, as well as those who are uneducated labourers.

Salary levels have never decided socio economic group. It has always been occupation.

It is just it really bothered me to listen to everyone saying how remarkable it was that a Labour party minister came from a poor and difficult background, when she represents the very people who established and lead the Labour party from its inception until - Jim Callaghan.

Looking atthe statistics Parliament as a whole has fallen into the hands of London based lawyers and professional political workers, whose contact or knowledge of life outside the bubble is minimal and as they play their little games with the economy and our lives, the state of life in the UK has declined.

eazybee

It is Angela Rayner who has gone on, incessantly, about her deprived childhood, her working class background and her struggle as a single mother. A small point, but her profile now claims that her relationship with the father of her first child lasted from 1995 to 2005, not walking out on her 18th birthday as has been claimed in the past, (and no, I cannot give a reference.) Her meteoric rise was fuelled by the Unions, and her own conduct which has blown it.

I don't think a political party should be considered to represent mainly one section of the population. That was how it originated, but the fact that many Labour MPs do not work in low paid manual jobs is surely an example of equality of opportunity which they supported, so that people of ability may move on to professional occupations should they wish.

There used to be many ex army, and business people who were experienced in running organisations in difficult times; now many come from studying politics at university to working as a political aide, some limited experience as a local councillor and then standing as an MP.
But a party expected to represent only one section of the population is regressive.
There is nothing wrong with being middle class, despite the fact that most people of all classes work to support themselves throughout life.

Excellent post

Allira

^As a working class person myself I have never been invited to a dinner party which imo is very much a middle class cultural thing.^
Oh!

But aren't we all middle-class now?
Quote from Lord Prescott

What is a dinner party? If a friend comes round and stays for a meal, Is that a dinner party?

It used to mean a formal meal with everyone dressed up and all the best china and glass out. That sort of dinner party, except in political and royal circles, went out in the 1970s.

I mean, even Samantha Cameron, talked about having 'kitchen suppers' as their way of entertaining, even when David Cameron was Prime Minister.

MOnica Angela Rayner had a baby when age 16, you accept this is
so “working class”, it was said on GransNet “she was dragged up” for some a difficult childhood and pregnancy at 16 belongs to the working class, you believe all Labour Mp’s should not have university education ?

Most of the criticism aimed at her was purely because she was female, working class and Northern though

I'm disappointed she has done this though

The Labour party originally didn't want women to have the vote, as they felt it would weaken working class men's rights and the Conservative party originally only wanted middle class and upper class women to have the vote.