Let’s get real about migration

StripeyGran

I really don't undertand why it is OK for some people to migrate to Spain or France but not OK for others to want to and try to come here.

I simply don't believe every newcomer has thrown his or her ID away, so that won't wash.

Not difficult to understand!
People who emigrate to Spain and France do so legally and have sufficient money to buy a home there or rent.
They are not a drain on their chosen countries resources.

silverlining48

T he vast majority of immigrants here are legal working or studying or been offered group asylum by the government, Hong Kong, Ukraine and some from Afghanistan.
The people who are desperate enough to risk their lives squeezed into these flimsy overloaded Plastic boats are a tiny percentage of immigrants, am thinking 3.5%. Yet all the anger and chatter is on these people. A woman and two children in separate incidents died today. RIP.

RIP indeed. Wonder if they'll get a mention in the rant about " numbers arriving"

I really don't undertand why it is OK for some people to migrate to Spain or France but not OK for others to want to and try to come here.

I simply don't believe every newcomer has thrown his or her ID away, so that won't wash.

T he vast majority of immigrants here are legal working or studying or been offered group asylum by the government, Hong Kong, Ukraine and some from Afghanistan.
The people who are desperate enough to risk their lives squeezed into these flimsy overloaded Plastic boats are a tiny percentage of immigrants, am thinking 3.5%. Yet all the anger and chatter is on these people. A woman and two children in separate incidents died today. RIP.

Oreo

Government has let down the people in the UK for years because of lax and incompetent behaviour by the Home Office.
They haven’t a clue who’s in the country, they don’t check expired visas or chase anything up.

So why are people expecting Labour to turn it round in a short space of time?

I’ve been watching the BBC series The Art That Made Us on iPlayer, and it’s fascinating, it’s clear that mass migration has been a constant feature throughout history, as have major protests against change, before society settles again to a new normal.

Are you the Chief Interrogator on GN?😄Is anyone’s views on here up to your own high standards of rational discussion?
Maybe there should be an exam before we dare post a comment.

The tv debate is on in a few minutes so time to sign out.Watch it growstuff you may learn something and be surprised.

escaped

growstuff

escaped

Interesting reading.
I don't do hysteria, and I am well aware of history, but what concerns me is the potential for these numbers to skyrocket. When people start to see action resulting in more controlled immigration, maybe they will calm down. At the moment this appears to be non existent, and that engenders uncertainty and fear.

What exactly do you fear about immigration? Maybe if those fears could be discussed rationally, ways could be found to mitigate the fears or to make a more intelligent argument than the ones we now have.

I'm certainly not xenophobic, but I fear we will soon not have enough school places, hospital beds, etc if numbers increase greatly.
On a practical level.

So build them! Schools are currently closing because the birth rate has plummeted. Hospitals would close with immigrant staff.

Please provide a rational disadvantage of immigration.

Oreo

Government has let down the people in the UK for years because of lax and incompetent behaviour by the Home Office.
They haven’t a clue who’s in the country, they don’t check expired visas or chase anything up.

(Sigh) It would be good to have rational discussion, but (as feared) it won't happen on GN.

escaped

growstuff

PS. I don't know how you can claim that control of immigration is non-existent. People pay a fortune for visas and the Immigration Health Surcharge. Those without visas are also "controlled" and have a precarious life.

I didn't say that control of immigration is non existent, I meant that evidence that the current system is working is lacking.

What do you want the current system to achieve? You have to define that before you can judge that it isn't working.

Government has let down the people in the UK for years because of lax and incompetent behaviour by the Home Office.
They haven’t a clue who’s in the country, they don’t check expired visas or chase anything up.

growstuff

PS. I don't know how you can claim that control of immigration is non-existent. People pay a fortune for visas and the Immigration Health Surcharge. Those without visas are also "controlled" and have a precarious life.

I didn't say that control of immigration is non existent, I meant that evidence that the current system is working is lacking.

escaped

Interesting reading.
I don't do hysteria, and I am well aware of history, but what concerns me is the potential for these numbers to skyrocket. When people start to see action resulting in more controlled immigration, maybe they will calm down. At the moment this appears to be non existent, and that engenders uncertainty and fear.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
There’s a debate on immigration on tv soon tonight, hosted by Trevor Phillips, should be interesting.

growstuff

escaped

Interesting reading.
I don't do hysteria, and I am well aware of history, but what concerns me is the potential for these numbers to skyrocket. When people start to see action resulting in more controlled immigration, maybe they will calm down. At the moment this appears to be non existent, and that engenders uncertainty and fear.

What exactly do you fear about immigration? Maybe if those fears could be discussed rationally, ways could be found to mitigate the fears or to make a more intelligent argument than the ones we now have.

I'm certainly not xenophobic, but I fear we will soon not have enough school places, hospital beds, etc if numbers increase greatly.
On a practical level.

Incidentally, what action do you think people want to see?

PS. I don't know how you can claim that control of immigration is non-existent. People pay a fortune for visas and the Immigration Health Surcharge. Those without visas are also "controlled" and have a precarious life.

escaped

Interesting reading.
I don't do hysteria, and I am well aware of history, but what concerns me is the potential for these numbers to skyrocket. When people start to see action resulting in more controlled immigration, maybe they will calm down. At the moment this appears to be non existent, and that engenders uncertainty and fear.

What exactly do you fear about immigration? Maybe if those fears could be discussed rationally, ways could be found to mitigate the fears or to make a more intelligent argument than the ones we now have.

Interesting reading.
I don't do hysteria, and I am well aware of history, but what concerns me is the potential for these numbers to skyrocket. When people start to see action resulting in more controlled immigration, maybe they will calm down. At the moment this appears to be non existent, and that engenders uncertainty and fear.

Did anyone see on the excellent ITV series I fought the law the scene in which local people presented Ann with a petition asking her to leave the area because she had an Asian husband? And they had slogans painted on their house? It seems to me that there is always one section of society that some politicians are using to turn people against each other. Jamaicans, Irish, Pakistanis; then recently it was Polish people and now Afghans. Going back a bit further Huguenots…( and from listening to podcasts about 1066 when the French invaded many people in England escaped by boat to Constantinople). Seems to me that what has happened in recent years is that our town centres have become very run down due to lack of investment, roads are full of potholes and road markings need repainting. It all makes it look as if the country is falling apart because of foreigners.

*Huguenot (typo)

friendlygingercat Why do you think you should have been consulted? Cultural shifts have been happening since the beginning of time and will continue in the future.

What in your view defines mass immigration? Over the last century, the British Isles have witnessed nothing like the replacement of Celts by Anglo-Saxons or the power grab by the Normans. The Sussex Weald was flooded with ironworkers from Belgium in the 14th century and Hugenot communities were set up from the 16th century onwards.

How is what is happening now any different from the past? Yet here we all are, having absorbed other cultures and become the great country we live in today.

If you read the original analysis friendlygingercat, you can see that isn’t the case, migration was consistently rising from the end of the 1900s.

Mass immigration did not begin post Brexit. Its a post WWII phomenon. I dont ever recall the referendum where I was asked to vote for or against a multi cultural society. My country was changed, without my knowledge or consent. into something I do not recognise.

Or don’t you care , and think it is only a couple of little kids

What a horrible assertion!

This is also very interesting reading, it delves into the job market gaps filled by migrants. If the UK could fill the gaps in key service areas, primarily health and social care, and agriculture, it would be possible to significantly reduce migration.
news.sky.com/story/how-much-does-the-uk-rely-on-legal-migration-13427636