Charlie Kirk shot

I don't agree with most of them lizzie
But I don't agree fully with most people I listen to ( that might be a problem with me rather than them!). Many on 'my side' think men should be in women's spaces, that prostitution and porn are empowering ( I view them as abuse) but I still listen to those people on other subjects.

Oh sorry Iomgran I don't use tiktok, that's a deliberate decision on my part.

Galaxy I have a genuine question to ask you.

I know from your posts on GN that you are an advocate for the empowerment of women and girls.

You say you have followed Charlie Kirk for some time, so you obviously know about his views on a range of topics.

I understand you align with his views on transgender, but I’m really confused about how his views on women sit with you?

I’m not trying to ‘catch you out’ - I’m trying to understand.

DaisyAnneReturns

I don't know if you heard his wife making an announcement this morning. It seems she wants to be a real life Serena Joy. She really should remember how the patriarchy dealt with her. Lessons about extremism often fall on it most strident supporters along side many of the weakest/poorest in society.

You can’t make pronouncements on anyone’s marriage. She is a grieving wife who’s husband has just been publicly murdered.
Have a little respect.

Galaxy

Groypers is the Nick Fuentes ( spelling?) group, mentioned a few times on here already. The rest are private websites/ services etc, to ensure you are anonymous.
I have been dealing with the gender discussion for a decade, I am a Terf as you describe them, I am used to watching odd behaviour on the Internet.

Maybe this will help you.
www.tiktok.com/@roterotemedia/video/7549367413486161174?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc

StripeyGran

*The killing of Charlie Kirk is being used by Tommy Robinson to mobilise support before what is expected to be Britain’s largest far-right rally in decades, which will include speakers from Britain, the US and Europe*

What have we become? Really?

A haven for free speech? You can’t have large protests, marches, demonstrations, rallies for any far left, pro Palestinian or anything else but deny it to the far right.You or I don’t have to go along to see it, or watch it on tv or even like or dislike it.

I don't know if you heard his wife making an announcement this morning. It seems she wants to be a real life Serena Joy. She really should remember how the patriarchy dealt with her. Lessons about extremism often fall on it most strident supporters along side many of the weakest/poorest in society.

Most of the UK does not agree with guns and young people of any political persuasion in the UK do not seem to think much of certain people or politics in the US.

Anniebach

Agree ronib , much that was condemned by most Christian Churches are now accepted and not spoken of

Christianity is just one belief system among many world wide. There is absolutely no reason why it should be held to be more important than any other and christians have no right to try to impose their beliefs on others. Especially when they are as warped as those of Charlie Kirk.

In my eyes he, and others of his ilk, was the equivalent of the Taliban when it comes to warping the christian message and trying to impose his twisted morality on everyone else.

I was brought up in a christian household, I think my parents would have been appalled at Kirk's 'message'. I certainly am, bearing in mind that the chief christian message is supposedly one of love for all people.

Kirk was a Christian nationalist, which I under stand to be to the right of the evangelical movement.

Briefly, CNs believe that the USA was built on Christian beliefs and the state and Christian church are entirely entwined without it actually written in the constitution, although I suspect that this will be pushed for if CNs get the opportunity.

Your own belief system will very much influence your opinion of such an ideology.

As a humanist, I think it will bring nothing but real risk to the peaceful running of American society (if there is such a thing) or indeed add to the already real divisions in American society and communities.

Groypers is the Nick Fuentes ( spelling?) group, mentioned a few times on here already. The rest are private websites/ services etc, to ensure you are anonymous.
I have been dealing with the gender discussion for a decade, I am a Terf as you describe them, I am used to watching odd behaviour on the Internet.

Galaxy

Oh yes my beliefs have been slowly destroyed over the last decade I would say. I just watch the behaviours of people on my 'side' and think well this isn't for me. So it isn't anything to do with who the shooter is, ( we don't know much about that yet) it is the response to the shooting.
I remain economically on the left but the rest is just not for me, and that's fine.

I think perhaps you simply chose the wrong crowd on your "side". I haven't seen a single person I engage with celebrate. Some pointing out how sad it is that the man's own ideology made his death easier to accomplish. That's it.

Galaxy

are you explaining the Internet to me?

OK explain the Groypers then with your extensive knowledge of the internet. Do you know what a Tor browser is? Do you know what Onion Services are?

Sadly nothing will change

I have no side. I used to be a card carrying member of the Conservative Party, then I joined UKIP. then we had the pandemic and I saw the sheer wrong headedness of these two parties and their callous disregard for the weak and vulnerable. I don't particularly care for the loud and vocal men who identify as women and I understand the TERF reaction. I do however see a world where everything is sensationalised for clicks and money. So I don't have a side, just humanity.

Agree ronib , much that was condemned by most Christian Churches are now accepted and not spoken of

DaisyAnneReturns

Cossy

Awful! No one should be murdered, for any reason, certainly not for their views/beliefs/opinions

“It’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment” [Charlie Kirk].

Isnt it a case of hoist by his own petard?

My views. I feel sorry for his family, naturally.

ronib

My hunch is that the world has changed in the last decade in a number of ways which directly attack basic Christian principles and beliefs. Charlie Kirk’s anti abortion belief is mainstream Catholicism and I find it hard that the Pope has not emphasised the sanctity of the embryo.
On gender issues, Charlie Kirk held to the tradition of male and female. No blurring of the two.
He was preaching against promiscuity, multiple partners and the loss of the maternal female role. Charlie Kirk clearly knew what love meant with his own family and he wanted this as a role model. The King Canute of his time?

What? He was preaching that black people are inferior.

Oh yes my beliefs have been slowly destroyed over the last decade I would say. I just watch the behaviours of people on my 'side' and think well this isn't for me. So it isn't anything to do with who the shooter is, ( we don't know much about that yet) it is the response to the shooting.
I remain economically on the left but the rest is just not for me, and that's fine.

My hunch is that the world has changed in the last decade in a number of ways which directly attack basic Christian principles and beliefs. Charlie Kirk’s anti abortion belief is mainstream Catholicism and I find it hard that the Pope has not emphasised the sanctity of the embryo.
On gender issues, Charlie Kirk held to the tradition of male and female. No blurring of the two.
He was preaching against promiscuity, multiple partners and the loss of the maternal female role. Charlie Kirk clearly knew what love meant with his own family and he wanted this as a role model. The King Canute of his time?

Kandinsky I am not old enough to remember the reactions to the assassination of Lincoln, or Garfield or McKinley for that matter. I was still a child when JFK was shot in Dallas but I can still remember the coming together in mourning in the USA and the rest of the world. People of varying political beliefs joined to express their sadness.

Nobody is saying Trump is to blame for the assassination of Lincoln or Kennedy. But there is no doubt that he is using the shooting of Charlie Kirk to deliberately try and further polarise the USA with his senseless rhetoric against all left leaning factions.

Galaxy

I am deeply deeply saddened, I was aware of him because of his stance on the men in women's spaces isdies, so I have been watching him for a long time.
I think I left the 'left' last night.

With all due respect, one does not "leave" their own ideology because of the actions of another who claims it unless their belief in the ideal itself wasn't secure.

A man murdered in front of his poor children in such a way will never cease to be disgusting and disturbing but any other individual's response to that does not shake a single opinion I hold as an individual.

I haven't yet found any evidence that the man who shot him or at Trump held any political affiliation.

The killing of Charlie Kirk is being used by Tommy Robinson to mobilise support before what is expected to be Britain’s largest far-right rally in decades, which will include speakers from Britain, the US and Europe

What have we become? Really?

We already have big problems in our country. Look at he mayhem caused by protesters blocking roads and motorways. They were allowed to do this! Why did their beliefs/rights override those of people going about their business? Appointments, holidays, funerals etc all lost because of this mindset of people. Unless this is stopped I can easily see problems escalating in this country.

Pleased to see so many comments from America, which I find myself almost entirely in agreement with.

Political violence didn’t start with Kirk’s death. America has a long history of such violence. If you just start with the last century, many of the presidents were subject to assassination attempts, a couple of which were successful, and people particularly blacks were subjected to political violence such as lynching.
One of the worst periods was around the Kennedy period, but I think few would argue that there has not been an uptick of political violence over the past decade. January 6th was an example few who witnessed will ever forget which was encouraged by the President. Both Democrat and republicans have been affected and subjected to extreme violence - it is not just one sided.
In 2023 Reuters identified more than 200 violent political acts in just two years.

Today American society is polarised by distrust, anger and most of all conspiracy theories, frequently encouraged by the political leaders themselves.

Unquestionably, violent or hate filled or divisive language is encouraging violent acts, particularly by those whose mental health is unstable.

Put that together with the ability to obtain a fire arm without control, and you have a recipe for real violence.