Charlie Kirk shot

I am really okay with the UK and have never wanted to visit the USA and never will. Even Europe is preferable!

I don’t know about anyone else on here growstuff but I neither like nor support the kind of things that Kirk said.I find his murder appalling nevertheless.
And we have to remember that millions of US citizens did like him.
Not our circus not our monkeys.

Allira I only said ‘mostly’ not all are left leaning on here. It’s a bluddy echo chamber on most N&P threads. Quite deafening in intensity.

I’m centre left but we have to acknowledge that the people in the US chose Trump for President.All the fault of the Democrats, Biden refusing to step down until it was too late for anyone other than Kamala Harris to step into the role.She wasn’t popular and lost to Trump.
Maybe next time around the Democrats will field a decent candidate with some hopes of winning.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

^the fact that you’re from the US doesn’t mean your every word is gospel^

Good point Oreo.
It’s an opinion from one side of the political divide there. Suits the narrative here (mostly left leaning) on GN down to the ground though - so a Democrat voice is much vaunted.

No surprise.

For goodness' sake! Have you read some of the stuff Kirk came out with? Do you really support that kind of stuff? Think "The Handmaid's Tale"! That's the kind of society Kirk wanted. Nobody needs to be a Democrat or "leftie" to find that abhorrent.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

^the fact that you’re from the US doesn’t mean your every word is gospel^

Good point Oreo.
It’s an opinion from one side of the political divide there. Suits the narrative here (mostly left leaning) on GN down to the ground though - so a Democrat voice is much vaunted.

No surprise.

I'm not left-leaning FGT2, in fact I think I'm a fairly reasonable person but I find some of the views being expressed by the ultra-right both here and in the USA abhorrent.

In my world view, being an enthusiastic MAGA supporter doesn’t mean you deserve to be murdered.

No, it doesn't.

It might, however, increase the chances of that happening because of their opposition to stricter gun controls.

the fact that you’re from the US doesn’t mean your every word is gospel

Good point Oreo.
It’s an opinion from one side of the political divide there. Suits the narrative here (mostly left leaning) on GN down to the ground though - so a Democrat voice is much vaunted.

No surprise.

apnews.com/article/buffalo-supermarket-shooting-highland-park-july-4-gun-violence-chicago-politics-5165bbcde8771ebf09e7641674d0de9a

I'll have to look up the Prevent Program, so I am not sure. I did enjoy the See if. Say it. Sort it program while I was there. Another person travelling with me to London and I love to use it now when an opportunity presents itself. It is so easy to remember!

Here is a good article about the use of Red Flag laws in the US. It contains information about the times it has been used, but these laws struggle to roll out and be used because conservatives tie them up in court until they go away.

"AP found such laws in 19 states and the District of Columbia were used to remove firearms from people 15,049 times since 2020, fewer than 10 per 100,000 adult residents. Experts called that woefully low and not nearly enough to make a dent in gun violence, considering the millions of firearms in circulation and countless potential warning signs law enforcement officers encounter from gun owners every day."

My BIL is a MAGA police officer. He would never use a red flag law.

The people complaining about violence are the one stopping any meaningful progress unless one of their own is killed.

Oreo

imaround

I will also say that I can't imagine anyone MAGA valuating mental health treatment. They barely believe in vaccines.

All that to say, I doubt his parents cared about his mental health.

Valuating? You’re allowing your own prejudices to take over by your statement about the young man’s parents.

Thought ‘valuating’ may be an Americanism🤔
No matter what you say, you don’t know anything about the young man’s parents, the fact that you’re from the US doesn’t mean your every word is gospel.
In my world view, being an enthusiastic MAGA supporter doesn’t mean you deserve to be murdered.

imaround

I agree 100%. My point is, how will that happen? MAGA won't let it. Trump's Supreme Court picks won't let it.

We can all sit back and say what needs to happen all day long, but until we (in the USA) accept that MAGA and Trump have accountability in the world we live in, nothing will change.

In my opinion.

Well wasn’t this the same under the Democrat watch? They could have changed laws. But didn’t.

apostrophe 😡

Well Oxford UK student George Abaraonye, 20, who sparked uproar with his gloating reaction to the Charlie Kirk shooting will have his on-line message’s accessible for his lifetime. He may well come to regret fully (job hunting) his posts.

imaround, thanks for being around on here.
The right to bare arms, the obsession with continuing a gun culture that is alien here in the uk can confirm America is a foreign country to us in the UK. We broadly speak the same language but, our culture is more similar to our European neighbours

I’ll surprised if the assassin here isn’t very similar to our own home grown isolationist murderous. Does the US have a similar programme to our Prevent programme.

Until 10 years ago, it was the same here in the US.

One of the things about Kirk is that he was a believer in the Seven Mountain Mandate. It is the belief that White Christian Nationals control all aspects of society and everything, including politics, is run through that lens.

It leads, in my opinion only, to a muddling of the waters in terms of keeping politics out of every aspect of our lives, despite the fact that we have freedom FROM religion in this country.

I would much rather everyone work with their doctors for treatment. And the government. Stay out of it, from my uterus to my mental health.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Mountain_Mandate

Many states have red flag laws on the books. Here is a look at Colorado's.

www.cpr.org/2022/11/22/how-colorados-red-flag-law-works-and-how-it-compares-to-other-states/

The problem is, the 2nd Amendment says "will not be infringed". Conservatives fought against Red Flag laws in every state they passed.

Utah has some of the most permissive gun laws in the country, including the ability for concealed carry permits on campus, as was the case of the campus Kirk was shot on.

In the UK severe mental disability is completely divorced from political interference to the best of my knowledge. It’s a medical condition here.

Don’t wish to sound stupid but has anyone asked for a stringent policy on mental competency for gun ownership? iamaround.
It looks to a complete outsider and onlooker as if no one has questioned this point. Apologies if otherwise.

I also want to know who gets to decide what a mental health issue is. Because that discussion is politically motivated as well.

I agree 100%. My point is, how will that happen? MAGA won't let it. Trump's Supreme Court picks won't let it.

We can all sit back and say what needs to happen all day long, but until we (in the USA) accept that MAGA and Trump have accountability in the world we live in, nothing will change.

In my opinion.

iamaround first of all, there’s no way you should be able to have a gun with any kind of mental health issues. The USA needs to work out how to protect the innocent too. IMO

Here is an example of it now.

Trump said the shooter was radicalized for a reason, liberals. So now, it is still the liberals fault in the minds of MAGA.

Nice culture war he is stirring.

www.cnn.com/2025/09/12/politics/spencer-cox-donald-trump-rhetoric-analysis

Trump was the catalyst for creating the violent landscape we live in. But he didn't pull that trigger. The shooter alone made that decision, and he is in custody and will be tried for it, as it should be.

No one should be in fear of being killed in this country. No one deserves to die.

Unfortunately, guns here will never go away because millions of (mostly right wing) people refuse to give them up.

I am interested in what solutions you all would suggest looking in from another country? Gun control can't happen unfortunately, as we now know. So what should we do?

How do we tone down the rhetoric when the leader of the United States only communicates violence and intolerance?

Please explain IOMGran. It’s completely idiotic to blame Trump .

ronib

Rubbish

Yes ronib, you speak a lot of it.