Would you turn your child in if they face the death penalty

I’m not ignoring your post doodledog but I feel that it’s verging on the angry/emotional.

So my post to worriedwell will be my last on this thread.

I was just debating really.

“If your child was facing the death penalty, you’d be responsible for a death”

That is why it would be so very hard. To be responsible for your own child’s death.

But if they killed again, you would also be responsible for a death or even many deaths.

There is no ducking the responsibility for death.

Only the decision of mine or somebody else.

The killer or the victim. You can’t save both.

sodapop

If my child was guilty of this sort of premeditated killing then yes I would turn them in.
I wouldn't want them to be responsible for any further deaths.

If your child is facing the death penalty you'd be responsible for a death.

I think I might turn a child in if they had done something very wicked like murder, but not if it meant they would face the death penalty.

I thought I'd quoted Lathyrus's post upthread, but it hasn't shown up. Mine is in reply to that, though.

I don't think anyone has 'accepted' the idea of their child killing. Nobody has done so.

What people are saying is that a mother's instinct is to protect her own child, and to turn him (or her) in knowing that he would be killed by the state would be too much to ask in the face of that instinct. That doesn't mean we don't understand that killing is wrong, or that the life of the dead person has value - it just means that we would struggle to put principle over the love we have for our children. In my case (I can't speak for others) if I knew that my child had killed for fun, or that there was a good chance he would do it again, I would probably feel differently, but it would still be difficult.

Let me turn this round? If we've established that rationality should trump emotion in your view, would you report your children for a traffic violation or a similar minor infraction? Photocopying a knitting pattern or getting off a train before buying a ticket? If not, why not? Where is your line in the sand? Selling drugs? Burglary? Shoplifting? Tax or benefit fraud? Would knowing that there was a death penalty make a difference?

Basically, are you of the opinion that every crime should be reported in case it escalates, and to protect others from becoming victims, or do you judge for yourself whether a crime should always be punished, and take into account the likely penalty? Would it make a difference if the perpetrator is your child or someone else's?

If my child was guilty of this sort of premeditated killing then yes I would turn them in.
I wouldn't want them to be responsible for any further deaths.

I hope I'd have the moral courage to turn my child in. In theory I would, but in practice would I try to find justification that his or her taking of a life wasn't as bad as the state taking my child's? Luckily in the UK the death penalty isn't an option, so yes I think I would have to report my own child. If someone of mine was murdered I'd want the friends or family of the guilty one to turn them in.

Lathyrus3

Oh I not in favour of the death penalty. M not in favour of anyone killing.

I just can’t get my head round those who express horror over the death penalty- that is horror at killing someone- but who would protect a killer because it is their child.

So presumably don’t feel the same horror at the death their child has caused. Or may cause in the future.

If there was a death penalty and you protected your child, how many would you allow your child to kill so that they didn’t die?

Most people seem to think one at least.

I don't think killing is right, murder, manslaughter or execution. In war I see a difference. So how can anyone condemn murder but think execution is OK. I guess we all look from a different perspective.

Oh I not in favour of the death penalty. M not in favour of anyone killing.

I just can’t get my head round those who express horror over the death penalty- that is horror at killing someone- but who would protect a killer because it is their child.

So presumably don’t feel the same horror at the death their child has caused. Or may cause in the future.

If there was a death penalty and you protected your child, how many would you allow your child to kill so that they didn’t die?

Most people seem to think one at least.

Lathyrus3

Not just state retribution though is it?

Most murders leave behind a family of relatives who suffer all the more because the killer was not caught. And who live in fear of him killing again perhaps another of their family, because they don’t know whether it was random or targeted on them.

Whole communities live in fear when a murder takes place there and nobody knows if the killer will strike again.

I understand the imperative to protect your own child. I don’t understand the horror expressed at the death penalty and the acceptance of death caused by your own child.

All the more reason not to have the death penalty. How many would support handing in a child who killed to be incarcerated but would not do it for them to be executed? How many murder more than once because they can't be executed twice so what have they got to lose?

I think the evidence indicates that the death penalty does not stop murders.

Not just state retribution though is it?

Most murders leave behind a family of relatives who suffer all the more because the killer was not caught. And who live in fear of him killing again perhaps another of their family, because they don’t know whether it was random or targeted on them.

Whole communities live in fear when a murder takes place there and nobody knows if the killer will strike again.

I understand the imperative to protect your own child. I don’t understand the horror expressed at the death penalty and the acceptance of death caused by your own child.

Delila

What if you knew your child was a really nasty piece of work - would it affect your decision?

Yes take that bloke who stabbed that poor Ukrainian girl on that train absolutely evil.
As for those people who stood by & did nothing! Fair enough may not have noticed at the time because they were all glued to their phones.

I think if I could find strongly mitigating circumstances in my child’s crime, I wouldn’t report him, but if I knew him to be dangerous and capable of gratuitous killing I’d feel that he had to be stopped, and would have to report him, but it would be such a terrible decision to have to make.

Reading back, I maybe wasn't clear. In the event of a probable 'one off' incident I wouldn't be able to turn him in in the name of justice.

If he turned out to be a serial killer, it would be different.

Lathyrus3

Just theoretically.

If you wouldn’t turn him in when he had killed once. What would you do when he had killed twice?

Would you hope there wouldn’t be a third?

How many other deaths would you accept in order that your child could go on living?

Or would there be no limit because he as your child?

This isnt meant personally by the way. More an exploration of the conflict between emotional response and rational.

I honestly don't know what I would do. I would try to do something to prevent it happening again, but I don't know what that would be.

As I said, the nature of the crime is probably important too. If he had a bedroom papered with newspaper reports of this crimes, and a collection of bloodstained knives, it would be very different from something one-off. I won't give examples of a one-off thing, as that would divert from the point, and I am not saying any form of killing is ok. But if all that would be gained from turning a child of mine in would be state retribution in the name of justice, then I couldn't do it.

That's the best I can do to explain my thinking. It's probably not rational, but instincts aren't, are they?

Septimia

It is a tough one Mt61. I think I would hand them over if they were likely to get a long prison sentence or be sent to a psychological institution, but I'd have to think twice if the death penalty was probable.

I find the whole thing distasteful - Kirk's politics, the shooting, the father persuding him to hand himself in and Trump et al braying for the death penalty. Thank goodness we abolished the latter.

Like I said, it’s a tough one!
Like someone said, they are going to be eventually caught. Plus, if you knew what that person had done, & didn’t say anything, you are accessory to the fact that you knew.

Just theoretically.

If you wouldn’t turn him in when he had killed once. What would you do when he had killed twice?

Would you hope there wouldn’t be a third?

How many other deaths would you accept in order that your child could go on living?

Or would there be no limit because he as your child?

This isnt meant personally by the way. More an exploration of the conflict between emotional response and rational.

Lathyrus3

I admit to not grasping the stance that can recoil in horror from the death penalty and yet countenance the death of innocent others by protecting a killer.

It's an instinct to protect one's children. I can't explain beyond that, really.

I fully grasp that the dead person also had a right to life, and I would be beyond devastated, but I just can't imagine picking up the phone to make a call that I know would end my child's life.

I don't know what I would do if I knew my child had killed someone, and hope I never find out, but I'm as sure as I can be that I couldn't turn him in knowing he would be executed. In the UK, where he would spend his life in jail I would still hate the idea, but I think that would be different, particularly if the nature of the crime suggested that he might do it again.

I admit to not grasping the stance that can recoil in horror from the death penalty and yet countenance the death of innocent others by protecting a killer.

It is a tough one Mt61. I think I would hand them over if they were likely to get a long prison sentence or be sent to a psychological institution, but I'd have to think twice if the death penalty was probable.

I find the whole thing distasteful - Kirk's politics, the shooting, the father persuding him to hand himself in and Trump et al braying for the death penalty. Thank goodness we abolished the latter.

I am not sure, depends what kind of relationship I had with that person. He Sounded like a bit of a weirdo to me.

I personally don’t think I could live with myself, if I didn’t do the right thing.
I don’t have children, so lucky for me I would never have to face that decision.
Gosh a tough one!

Yes I agree Wyllow, it is theoretical, in that we don't have the death penalty here, it is a terrible to think about.

My first overriding thought would be , what have I done as a mother to make my child do that.

Galaxy

But the risk is that they cause more deaths. So people would die because you hadn't done that.

I'm another who disagrees with the death penalty so profoundly, especially as it's handled in the USA, I wouldnt. if they then went on to kill others that leaves me in a quandary I don't know how to answer. The reality is that it's unlikely you were the only one that knew?