Can Starmer survive? The wolves are circling in the Labour Party.

Galaxy

I don't know what I feel about this.
I think Starmer became PM due to a rejection of the Tories rather than an endorsement of what he stood for. I am hoping this isn't more of the same - a rejection of Starmer rather than an endorsement of Burnham.

Well I, for one, would endorse Burnham. I suspect that most voters have more agency than you seem to credit us with, Galaxy. Of course we can only vote for who is available, so there is more than an element of that at play, but I do feel that AB would be good at offering a real alternative to both the authoritarian stance that KS has taken and to the terrifying prospect of a Reform government because he has both the personality and the principles that I can relate to.

Farage is an ugly little man with incredible charisma and a gifted speaker. He is saying what disaffected people want to hear. Now who do we know from the 1930s who was able to sway public opinion and came to power by legal means?

MayBee70

But people can see exactly what is happening in America and yet his mini me over here is still gaining popularity. I just don’t understand it .

Nor do the rest of thd 63% of this country who don't want him. But "empty vessels make the most noise" and distract people from real life.

I am going by how few people put themselves forward, and commentators and those in a Party, who mention names.

What always astounds me about any Party, is how few people there are who would make Leader, let alone a good one.

I don't know what I feel about this.
I think Starmer became PM due to a rejection of the Tories rather than an endorsement of what he stood for. I am hoping this isn't more of the same - a rejection of Starmer rather than an endorsement of Burnham.

It could also be it feels new.
I havent understodd for more than a decade, why people kept voting for same old.

Even Lib Dems look like they may be reinventing themselves.
I dont think that will harm them.

People also tell lies
And to pollsters sometimes.

Primrose53

MayBee70

But people can see exactly what is happening in America and yet his mini me over here is still gaining popularity. I just don’t understand it .

You don’t have to understand it because plenty of people do like him.

It is same old. But more.
The silent voter syndrome.

The silent voters seem to make up a bigger and bigger part of the electorate nowawadays.

Dont blame them.
Too much abuse hurled when people do speak.

I think you'r right, Grantanow, sadly. I really do wish the stars would align to make it happen though. People seem to struggle with the fact that Starmer is not charismatic and Burnham has a media presence. There are obvious problems with factions within the LP, and Burnham does seem to inspire unity.

Also, and most importantly, one of Starmer's main problems is that he is seen as part of the Londoncentric 'elite' that dominates so much in the UK, but Burnham is more of a 'man of the people'. Whatever the truth of that, these days so much is about perception, and Burnham would be better as a challenger to the threat of Farage. If he managed to redistribute the investment and advantage that London and the SE gets to the rest of the country, a lot of problems might go away. We've heard so many people talk about 'levelling up', but it hasn't happened, and we are reaping the consequences of that now.

Load of Telsgraph waffle about Burnham challenging Starmer. IMHO there are too many hurdles - finding a seat, getting selected in teeth of national Labour Party opposition (veto?), probably no Cabinet Minister would help his campaign (disloyal to Starmer), opposed by Reform, then has to get 80 MPs to nominate in a leadership challenge and has to beat Starmer. All unlikely I think.

nanna8

What would be really,really good is if Starmer actually listens to his critics and changes. At least a bit. I don’t think he is a bad man, just not a good PM. The alternatives aren’t crash hot and maybe he needs to drop a few hints that way. I really couldn’t think of anyone at all right at this moment who would be able to replace him. Farage is just too much of an unknown quantity though he sounds good and says all the ‘right’ things to his audiences.

Good summing up 👍🏻

Farage appeals to some evidently. Why is that I wonder.
Why do you call him a mini me?

MayBee70

But people can see exactly what is happening in America and yet his mini me over here is still gaining popularity. I just don’t understand it .

You don’t have to understand it because plenty of people do like him.

But people are turning to Reform without knowing what on earth they stand for other than ‘turning back the boats’.

Because they looked at Trump looked at the alternative and picked Trump. And they knew who he was. He had served a term already.
It might be better to think about why that was rather than simply talk about how awful Farage/Trump is.

But people can see exactly what is happening in America and yet his mini me over here is still gaining popularity. I just don’t understand it .

I think there is a good chance, as things look at the moment, that Remand may get the largest number of seats but a coalition of Labour plus either the LibDems and/or Greens may trump them. No democratic would want the extremists.

We will have had time to see more of the dissolution of American democracy under the far-right and that might help keep numbers down for our very own Divine Republic.

What would be really,really good is if Starmer actually listens to his critics and changes. At least a bit. I don’t think he is a bad man, just not a good PM. The alternatives aren’t crash hot and maybe he needs to drop a few hints that way. I really couldn’t think of anyone at all right at this moment who would be able to replace him. Farage is just too much of an unknown quantity though he sounds good and says all the ‘right’ things to his audiences.

It will be Starmer who gets the blame, of course, but I'd go back to Cameron who idiotically gave Farage his opportunity to become centre stage with the EU referendum. And who also presided over a government which caused economic hardship for a very significant number of voters, which Farage was able to exploit in his anti EU propaganda.

LizzieDrip

^They say we get the politicos we deserve --- a lot of this country must have been very naughty^

God knows what that says about us if we end up with Farage in No 10. Can’t think of anything bad enough to deserve that!

I actually agree with that.
But if we do end up with Farage in No 10, which party or which leader will bear the blame on GN?

They say we get the politicos we deserve --- a lot of this country must have been very naughty

God knows what that says about us if we end up with Farage in No 10. Can’t think of anything bad enough to deserve that!

For Maizie, your "Starmer may be a decent and honourable man with good intentions. One could forgive him being less than charismatic if he were competent and represented core Labour values. But he isn't. I'm in favour of Andy Burnham" was perfect until you got to AB! Starmer was hopeless at the CPS (ask any lawyer and/or police from that era), and those who recalled his incompetence had little faith that he'd be any good as a Labour leader. His huge election win was fuelled by massive help from Bojo and the ludicrous Truss woman, who've made Tories unelectable for years.

Burnham got featured on a recent Newsnight, when the panel lampooned his constantly changing stance on assorted policy topics, ("like trying to nail jelly") and his answer to a question along the lines of "Will you see out your term as Mayor?" . . . which amounted to "well, I may or may not, I'll see how the wind blows, and which direction it is".

Somewhere in the Labour Party there is doubtless a charismatic and competent leader, clearly none of KS, Reeves or Rayner! David Lammy is well up in their hierarchy these days, another hopeless case, I remember him appearing on the BBC 'This Week' show (hosted by Andrew Neil, often featured Portillo and the excellent Alan Johnson), and he used to get reduced almost to tears, a tongue-tied mess, as they unravelled and exposed his errors re Labour policy. Even Diane Abbott used to look more competent than Lammy!!

They say we get the politicos we deserve --- a lot of this country must have been very naughty.

David49
Nevertheless a large section of voters vote for a party not the candidate personally, the leader of that party has a big influence on voters.

I’d agree with that.

Those who come to the door pre voting day usually ask Will you be voting X party? not the candidate’s name.

Outside the polling centres we are often asked how we voted, not who we voted for.

Casdon

We will see, but I can’t see it. Selling your principles down the river for a job is a pretty low thing to do.

It would be sold as
"Doing it for my family", "such and such party is finished", "doing it in the national interest", etc
Some people are capable of coming up with no end of reasons or excuses for doing anything whatsoever. And many will fall for it.