Can Starmer survive? The wolves are circling in the Labour Party.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not evident.

Allira

🤔

I grew up.

Allira

But you're not a new 'pupil', DaisyAnneReturns.

I think you’re right. I seem to remember . . .

DAR
They noticeably never seemed to realise that no-one ever took their personal sense of power seriously. They might try to trip someone up, etc., or make a hit pretending a ball had gone astray, but they couldn't have a real conversation or a real friendship.
Just how you appear to me, DAR. I find it impossible to hold a conversation with someone who translates anything I say into what they wanted me to have said.
Even to the extent of dragging in Cuba China . . .
Glad I don’t need grandsnet to remind me what no longer matters, but I’m happy that it’s helpful to you.

🤔

Exactly.

But you're not a new 'pupil', DaisyAnneReturns.

I changed schools a lot when I was young and am reminded of the always occurring small group waiting for the new pupils. They noticeably never seemed to realise that no-one ever took their personal sense of power seriously. They might try to trip someone up, etc., or make a hit pretending a ball had gone astray, but they couldn't have a real conversation or a real friendship.

It's amazing how grandsnet can remind you of what no longer matters.

DaisyAnneReturns

You describe my supposition based on what many people say as a declaration by me of what I say you believe Mollygo. I really don't know you well enough to do that and replied to your post, not to you personally.

You could easily have apologised for not making your reasoning clear and corrected my supposition. We are talking equal to equal after all. Or don't you believe that to be the case?

🤣🤣🤣
Deciding what you think I believe again? Oh dear. But do keep on DAR.

Galaxy

I haven't torn anyone apart, I have asked whether the 'but it happens everywhere else and they seem ok' applies to other issues. I guess not.

😁 you’re not one of the wolves that’s circling the LP are you?

You describe my supposition based on what many people say as a declaration by me of what I say you believe Mollygo. I really don't know you well enough to do that and replied to your post, not to you personally.

You could easily have apologised for not making your reasoning clear and corrected my supposition. We are talking equal to equal after all. Or don't you believe that to be the case?

It’s OK DAR
Yet another declaration by you of what you say I believe.
Just carry on. Your posts are there for my entertainment and so that others can view your fantasies about what I or others think. 🤣🤣🤣

Where have I said any such thing?

You didn't Mollygo. You gave no reason why you asked the question and I did point out it was supposition on my part.

All you needed to do was explain that wasn't the reason and tell us why you had asked the question; you can do that now. Why do you believe all Labour Party supporters should support equally each and every bill that the Labour Part brings forward?

Love tie!
* DaisyAnneReturns*

I'm not a Labour Party "supporter" Mollygo but neither do I see our country, under Labour, as "socialist" country which I think is were your "horror" comes from. Are you really comparing it to what, say Cuba, Vietnam, China, etc., would do?

Good grief, such an unwarranted accusation and untruthful implications are exactly what I’d expect from you DAR, having read some of your responses to posters on this and other threads.

Where have I said any such thing?
Where have I expressed the “horror” that you untruthfully attribute to me?

If I wasn’t enjoying leaving your lies for all to see, I’d have reported your post, but much better to leave inaccurate and untruthful posts such as yours for all to see. 🤣🤣🤣

I haven't torn anyone apart, I have asked whether the 'but it happens everywhere else and they seem ok' applies to other issues. I guess not.

I think you will have to address that to Mollygo, Galaxy, as she originally questioned. The party is going to introduce ID cards. Are all LP supporters on GN posting enthusiastic backing for the scheme? I was just highlighting that many social democracies seem happy with them.

Vote for one particular bill or for one particular personality and you are likely/bound to be disappointed. Democracy is not just about the individual. It is about the many and where they agee on the overall direction of travel. It cannot be about the individual and each person's separate views - as some would want you to believe and then want you to tear one another apart when they a) dont agree and b) often misunderstand what they are being offered.

Does that apply to other issues or just ID cards. So Denmark have what is considered by some as harsh rules in terms of immigration, asylum seekers, etc - should we do that, after all Denmark seems to be doing OK.

I'm not a Labour Party "supporter" Mollygo but neither do I see our country, under Labour, as "socialist" country which I think is were your "horror" comes from. Are you really comparing it to what, say Cuba, Vietnam, China, etc., would do?

A better comparison would surely be to Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland, normally thought of as "social democracies" which would surely be what a Labour run democracy is. All have all national identity card systems which are widely used for travel, official identification, and administrative purposes. They seem to be doing okay.

Never mind, then, that we are all old enough to understand any parties intentions eazybee. Let's tear the young woman apart for doing exactly what the government of the day wanted her to do and had put "push factors" in place to encourage the buying and selling of council houses by people new to doing this.

So what you are complaining about is a young womens personal actions at an age which, I would guess, many make poor choices and often with much more behind them to suggest they might have done otherwise.

This is, of course what populism and populist followers do. They divide society on a personal basis. They make a division between those painted as "pure people" (including themselves), and those the charged as being "the corrupt".

They see politics as an expression of the general will, that "general will" being assessed by the leaders and supporters, not by democratic means. It is represented by today's culture populist who give their followers, not the difficult, time consuming, democratic plan they don't have patience for, but the "hate these people; they are the cause of your problems, we will rid you of them" solution. While not explaining that the winners will be them and the loosers will be you.

No matter what criticism can be aimed at individuals, it's that intention the party will follow when they have power.

It’s the intention they say they will follow, but don’t, or don’t say they will follow, but do it anyway , that is worrying.

The party is going to introduce ID cards. Are all LP supporters on GN posting enthusiastic backing for the scheme?

I don’t like being mean to Andy Burnham. With his soft, doe-eyed features, it feels rather like punching a lamb. But it’s quite an achievement when “We’ve got to get beyond this thing of being in hock to the bond markets” isn’t actually the stupidest thing a politician has said in any given week.

The other day Burnham kicked off his not-quite-a-leadership bid by urging Labour to embrace “Manchesterism”. This he defined as “business-friendly socialism”, in which the state “rolled back the 1980s” by seizing control of “the basics of life”: housing, energy, water, rail. This included borrowing £40 billion for new council housing.

Obviously, someone urging the country to do the things he’d done as mayor of Greater Manchester would have actually done those things, right? Turns out, not so much.

Burnham did announce, in May 2024, that he was going to build 10,000 council houses by 2028. But over the following year the region started construction on just ten. No, that’s not a typo.

More broadly, during his mayoralty Greater Manchester has gone from building 5 per cent of England’s new houses to 3 per cent. Private housebuilding starts are a third of what they were when he took office in 2017.

From The Times

Could someone please tell me why any of this was a young Angela Rayner's fault? Or why they vote for people who mean them harm?

Council housing for sale has never been attributed to a young Angela Rayner, far too busy hanging around clubs and getting pregnant rather than concentrating on education to be concerned with Political policies, but very quick to take advantage of social housing and exploit it later to make a personal profit.(no case to investigate said the authorities). She got away with it then but fell foul of the tax system when she attempted to play it to her advantage years later.

Thank you *Maizie, and yes, I should have emphasised that. After all it shows, even more obviously, the intention of what seemed to many to be a "good idea".

Good post, DAR

A great illustration of the neoliberal economic strategy which has been destroying the country since Thatcher implemented it when she came to government.

Yes, the revenue generated from sales was often not reinvested into building new affordable housing, leading to a decline in the overall supply of social housing. That was exactly what the Conservative Right intended.

I would emphasise that local authorities weren't allowed to reinvest the revenue in new affordable housing. Which is why we have a serious problem with sky high private rents which the least well off struggle to pay, or cannot afford at all.

Primrose53

I know all about the RTB scheme thanks but I was asking how a single unemployed mother could manage to buy her council house ( BPs mother) when BP claims they were so poor she had to sleep in her clothes in winter and a neighbour had to give them a few quid to buy her a coat.

Most people in council houses struggled to pay the rent, let alone buy their house.

What you are asking is irrelevant to what parties intend.