This must be a sad day for England

I think he hasn't got a belief system for want of a better word, which makes it very difficult to 'set out your stall' so to speak.

Preserving British culture? Footage on social media showing a flag clothed gentleman and his friends consuming delicious onion bhajis on his way to yesterday's family festival.
Which part of England was it that created such tasty cuisine?

Iam64

fancythat

GrannyGravy13

The question is (should be) why is it that a growing sector of the population is so disenfranchised with mainstream politics?

Why are they so concerned for their children in this changing UK?

Why has TR been held up as a paragon of British Unity ?

Our current PM maybe should address these issues?

Start a new thread?

You or Monica who raised the same point?

I’ve read through this long and irritable thread. Its encouraged me to ask the question posed in GrannyGravy’s comment. At the risk of raising the ever present ghost of Brexit, I’m always concerned when the intelligence of a large proportion of our population is suggested as lower than average because they don’t share ‘our’ more tolerant views.

I listened to the news and Paddy O’Connel’s radio 4 programme this morning. It added to my despair and had mr thinking it’s time Keir Starmer addressed the nation. I’ve neen a Starmer supporter, our country feels rudderless and drifting into dangerous waters. . This week on top of awful comms and changes of direction mean we need leadership we can trus

I agree, Iam64

Starmer needs to be more decisive. So far all we have seen is shilly shallying, U turns and hesitancy.

He is not proving to be the leader I had hoped he'd be, one to bring the country together.

I don't do that though and as someone who was endlessly called a bigot for suggesting women need spaces of their own, I view that word with wariness.

MollyNew

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Babs03 and growstuff totally agree with you that most Muslims are lovely people. I have a good friend, a doctor locally, she attended Hadj last year.

However.
There is a flip side to all this kumbaya.

Why is that school teacher who was hounded out by a baying mob in Batley still in hiding all these years on?

It’s not all flowers and lollipops. Good and bad in all religions.
I’m a Humanist so I have no skin in the game but I do like fairness. In everything and for everyone.

Nowt wrong with that!

A Humanist? An Atheist, maybe but Humanists UK promote tolerance, empathy and kindness. I've not seen much evidence of this in some of your recent posts. Also, your "some of my best friends are muslim" is a bit of a cliche.

Also, your "some of my best friends are muslim" is a bit of a cliche.
Yet it keeps being used by several posters claiming friends, family members, second cousins three times removed etc. to prove how tolerant they are compared to other posters.

Agreed theworriedwell.

Some of us are called ‘intolerant left loonies’ but heaven forbid we should call a racist a racist; a bigot a bigot; an Islamophobe an Islamophobe!

For everyone who is posting 'Oh look, 400 arrested at the Palestine marches. Gosh they must have been much worse than those racist thugs at the Stephen Yaxley Lennon march', just ask any Police Officer friend or family, which of the two marches would you rather attend?

theworriedwell

Galaxy

Calling people stupid, racist, etc isn't going to work. I see no way that people are going to listen to that but I will keep tediously doing it.

So we should never call a racist a racist? Why? Do you think the two white men who raped a young Sikh woman while racially abusing her should be called something nicer. They are racists as well as rapists and that's what I call them.

798,000 women are raped or sexually assaulted in the U.K. every year.

But if you ( not you personally) label everyone far right or racist then it becomes meaningless. I don't even hear those words anymore and I am not the only one.

GG13 - more consensus arising. Maybe we can start our own new political party. I’m on the way out to join my youth wing for a good Sunday roast, will ponder our name and belief systems

Galaxy

Calling people stupid, racist, etc isn't going to work. I see no way that people are going to listen to that but I will keep tediously doing it.

So we should never call a racist a racist? Why? Do you think the two white men who raped a young Sikh woman while racially abusing her should be called something nicer. They are racists as well as rapists and that's what I call them.

Iam64 I do think a big part of the PM’s and Labour’s problems can be traced back to their appalling communications or complete lack of!

I agree that the U.K. feels rather rudderless in the current storm.

KS is conducting himself well on the world stage, but is increasingly invisible at home.

I am beginning to feel sorry for the Labour MPs who are given the job of doing the TV interviews each morning on the various breakfast media outlets. They never have the chance to speak on their brief as they are being bombarded by the interviewer on the latest mess up/scandal in Labour’s midst.

There is a vacuum in society and TR is taking advantage of it.

We also see the way women are treated in some Muslim countries, (Afghanistan, Iran, Middle East) and some fear that it could happen here with the increasing numbers of young migrant men, whose cultural values are totally different to those of the majority in the U.K. and the West.

Keir Starmer has made a statement saying We will never surrender our flag as it represents our diverse country. Nobody should feel intimidated because of their background or colour of their skin.

Tommy Robinson and Elon Musk stand against diversity. They want to divide the country and spread hatred.

Calling people stupid, racist, etc isn't going to work. I see no way that people are going to listen to that but I will keep tediously doing it.

I loathe people being called stupid as well. It is why we are where we are.

fancythat

GrannyGravy13

The question is (should be) why is it that a growing sector of the population is so disenfranchised with mainstream politics?

Why are they so concerned for their children in this changing UK?

Why has TR been held up as a paragon of British Unity ?

Our current PM maybe should address these issues?

Start a new thread?

You or Monica who raised the same point?

I’ve read through this long and irritable thread. Its encouraged me to ask the question posed in GrannyGravy’s comment. At the risk of raising the ever present ghost of Brexit, I’m always concerned when the intelligence of a large proportion of our population is suggested as lower than average because they don’t share ‘our’ more tolerant views.

I listened to the news and Paddy O’Connel’s radio 4 programme this morning. It added to my despair and had mr thinking it’s time Keir Starmer addressed the nation. I’ve neen a Starmer supporter, our country feels rudderless and drifting into dangerous waters. . This week on top of awful comms and changes of direction mean we need leadership we can trus

She was as poor as the rest of them, I wasn't born. Being stupid has nothing to do with being poor, plenty of poor people saw through him. Would you want gold bath taps when you hadn't got a bath?

Yes laughing at the poor that's a movement I want to join.

vegansrock

43

The flagshagging is not about ‘preserving British culture’. It’s about hate and division promoted by Tommy Robinson of far-right racism fame. Some naive people think it’s about patriotism but they are delusional. It’s nationalism not patriotism. Its cringe.
Oswald Mosley had a big following in the 1930s - there’s always been a far right aggressive and loud mouthed minority. If you look at the numbers who turned out for the anti Brexit and anti war marches this was small.

When I started work in the 60s I worked with a woman who remembered Oswald Mosley campaigning in her area. Her take was "silly buggers lapped it up, he was promising them gold bath taps and all they had was a lav in the back yard ". Made me laugh.

Mollygo

I’m not a TR supporter in any shape or form, but the people there were not contributing to or participating in the violence.
But some posters just love blanket condemnations.
So presumably by their measure, any violence in so called Pride gatherings, processions or protests is the responsibility of all attendees and they should all be condemned.
So now we’ve seen their colours nailed to the mast.

If that's aimed at me yes I'm anti violence and anyone choosing to support a racist march that was likely to end in violence are supporting that violence. I'm proud of my colours.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Babs03 and growstuff totally agree with you that most Muslims are lovely people. I have a good friend, a doctor locally, she attended Hadj last year.

However.
There is a flip side to all this kumbaya.

Why is that school teacher who was hounded out by a baying mob in Batley still in hiding all these years on?

It’s not all flowers and lollipops. Good and bad in all religions.
I’m a Humanist so I have no skin in the game but I do like fairness. In everything and for everyone.

Nowt wrong with that!

A Humanist? An Atheist, maybe but Humanists UK promote tolerance, empathy and kindness. I've not seen much evidence of this in some of your recent posts. Also, your "some of my best friends are muslim" is a bit of a cliche.

foxie48

Well I listened to TR's speech, at least what was on Conservative Woman's website and yes, it's exactly what you would expect. It's anti immigration, Islamophobic and he thinks he's at the start of a counter cultural revolution. The mob brayed and clapped every time he made a racist comment, so basically he was throwing red meat out to a crowd of yobs hungry for their racism to be given credibility. He said it was the biggest march ever but over 300,000 turned out to support fox hunting, so on that basis many more people want to chase foxes than chase immigrants! Make of that, what you will but I'm quietly pleased (and no I have never hunted).
Kathy Gyngell said it was like Shakespeare to a very small extent, I reluctantly agree. Shakespeare knew his audience and so does TR but he's no wordsmith!
He also mentioned the millions of flags flying across the country, so those who thought they were flying the flag to reclaim it, he thought they were there to support his bigoted views.
He's definitely an extreme Islamophobe, mentioned several Islamic nationalities by name and tbh I think that's why a lot of people follow him. He started Pegida UK some years ago, so no surprise there. As others have said, I've noticed a rise in Islamophobia and seen a good many Anti Islamic posts on GN so it's reach pickings ATM.
Don't bother to listen to him, he's vile.

Thanks foxie48 👏👏👏

I must admit I’m feeling weary and sad to read anti Islamic posts on GN.

Islamophobia appears to be legitimised in UK society now.

It’s ‘othering’; Muslims today; a different minority group tomorrow. We appear to have entered an age of ‘might is right’; he who shouts loudest is the only voice that’s heard; little empathy for fellow humans.

I genuinely thought we were a better country than that.

I’m old so I can take it or leave it … but I fear for my grandchildren.

43

The flagshagging is not about ‘preserving British culture’. It’s about hate and division promoted by Tommy Robinson of far-right racism fame. Some naive people think it’s about patriotism but they are delusional. It’s nationalism not patriotism. Its cringe.
Oswald Mosley had a big following in the 1930s - there’s always been a far right aggressive and loud mouthed minority. If you look at the numbers who turned out for the anti Brexit and anti war marches this was small.

Action Palestine don’t have more arrests because of violence. It has been declared an illegal/terrorist group that cannot gather on our streets so the police have to try to arrest everyone, which is such a wasted use of police time when those attending one of these demos are not violent or in any way terrorists.

Anniebach

25 arrests yesterday. 890 arrests Action Palestine ,

It’s so wrong to say of all on the march yesterday ‘thought they were protesting about’, I am sure they knew why they were there

The average age of the people arrested on Palestine Action seemed to be about 80. I think the acid test is the number of violent offences committed. I think that would skew your figures the opposite way.