This must be a sad day for England

StripeyGran

What on earth is the point of swapping these numbers of arrests?

One arrest is one too many. One facist is one too many. One person drowning is one too many. One dead child is one too many.

Part of me can't be bothered any more, part of me won't be bullied.

If arrests are being presented in a way that presents yesterday's match as more peaceful than Nottinghill or the supporting Palestine Action one then look at the facts and the truth is yesterday's match was violent with thugs attacking the police. Our police.

Supporting thugs. They might not have realised it but that's what they did.

Part of the popularity of certain political rhetoric is that it suggests simple solutions to complex problems.
Local authority houses were sold off and not replaced. This is a thorny conundrum now, and difficult to fix , so the suggestion that " it's due to immigrants" is an attractive one: send immigrants back to where they came from- problem solved, say some.
Unemployed - maybe an immigrant took your job?
I spend Mondays distributing parcels at a food bank, and a percentage, not all, of course, of the people I meet would give lie to this because, due to cognitive impairment, addiction or mental health problems they are, effectively, unemployable.
Spending significant sums on mental wellbeing programmes might help this, but these are expensive and long - term strategies. The " quick fix" solutions are attractive.

Who is bullying you when they discuss numbers? Sorry if I have missed it I have just read the thread quite quickly.

What on earth is the point of swapping these numbers of arrests?

One arrest is one too many. One facist is one too many. One person drowning is one too many. One dead child is one too many.

Part of me can't be bothered any more, part of me won't be bullied.

Because they looked at what the other side has to offer and say, and made a choice.

foxie48

I do wonder what all those "nice family people" who went on a march with known thugs, thought they were protesting about and what they thought waving those jolly flags represented? Did they think Tommy Robinson would make cheese rolling a national sport or ensure that morris dancing was on the school curriculum. I've yet to hear anyone explain cogently what "pride in being English" actually means. To an interested observer it looks pretty much like xenophobia/racism with a big dash of Islamophobia for good measure. It's certainly not the qualities that I associate with being English, ie fair play, love of the under dog, tolerance, self deprecation etc. So someone, please tell me, why did those people turn out on a Saturday morning in London to march with a load of thugs?

Well said foxie48

Why on earth would you go on a march organised by a well known fascist if you didn't support his views? There's been enough press coverage of what Tommy Robinson stands for.

I think a lot of demonstrations here in France are driven by nostalgia and unwillingness to accept that change has to happen. The country cannot afford to allow everyone to retire at 62 or to have 11 Bank Holidays, which become a 4 day holiday if they are on a Thursday or Tuesday.
It is my impression that successive politicians have listened and understood the grievances, but people don't want to hear that this is the consequence of an economy is in deep trouble and these are some of the many changes that are needed.
The popularity of politicians is low across Europe and in many other countries. The world of employment is changing a a fast pace. Climate change is making life harder and the world a more dangerous place.
There are no easy solutions. Last week the protesters set fire to the local ring road. Not sure how that is supposed to help.

25 arrests yesterday. 890 arrests Action Palestine ,

It’s so wrong to say of all on the march yesterday ‘thought they were protesting about’, I am sure they knew why they were there

I do wonder what all those "nice family people" who went on a march with known thugs, thought they were protesting about and what they thought waving those jolly flags represented? Did they think Tommy Robinson would make cheese rolling a national sport or ensure that morris dancing was on the school curriculum. I've yet to hear anyone explain cogently what "pride in being English" actually means. To an interested observer it looks pretty much like xenophobia/racism with a big dash of Islamophobia for good measure. It's certainly not the qualities that I associate with being English, ie fair play, love of the under dog, tolerance, self deprecation etc. So someone, please tell me, why did those people turn out on a Saturday morning in London to march with a load of thugs?

We should all hang our heads in shame at the atrocities carried out by our country in the distant past, and be doing everything we can to be a caring and peaceful place. The world has too many crazy fascist leaders, let’s not allow them to have influence here.

M0nica

MayBee70

Can’t just blame this government. It worked with previous Conservative governments and the same tactic was used by Farage for Brexit. Unfortunately people have been brainwashed into thinking the solution to everything is a ‘protest vote’ even though they don’t actually know what the alternative might be.

I think this is an arrogant assumption. people are not brainwashed, if they are then among the brainwashed are all of us, we are not superior to all those on these demonstrations.

People are demonstrating because they are fed up with governments that ignore them and their concerns in pursuit of - well, what? Whatever it is - it isn't what people want.

Robinson and Farage have risen as leaders from the many ordinary people who are fed up with the current situation. If people were happy with the governance of this country as it is now, these people would not have come to promenance.

People may not be clear on what the alternative is, but what they do know is that they are very sure it is not what they are getting now.

Patronising and looking down on ordinary people and pretending that you (or I are somehow a cut above the rest and know so much better than them, is what got us into this mess in the first place. Continuing it only makes the situation worse.

I think you’ll find they rose to prominence during the Conservatives government? Don’t recall them suddenly appearing in the last twelve or so months…

The elite have been defined as the ruling classes.

Until the governing classes get to grips with the economy and ensure it works for everyone, we will inevitably roll along this road to populism, with all that it might bring.

So who do these people see as the ‘elite’? Anyone with their own home? With children in private schools? People with earnings or savings above average? Anyone with a degree?

They are coming for immigrants now, but who will be next?

I agree (and have been saying since Brexit) that sneering at people with different views is what leads to extremism. For years we have been pitted against one another. Young against old, race, rich against poor, religious differences, left against right- it goes on and on. Telling people they don’t understand their own views adds fuel to the fire.

I hope it’s not too late to stop what seems like an inexorable slide, but I doubt it.

Our flags are a lovely expression of our identity, but was that the 'intent'? Welcome to our countries? Or go away, you don't belong?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

So many flags too - the Saltire 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 the welsh flag 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 the ROI trichlor. ….

exactly, it was lovely to see those flags

Tommy Robinson and Elon Musk want to destroy the UK and demonstrations like yesterday's help them.
I understand the unrest as people struggle every day to feed their families, get doctor's appointments and feel their lives are getting harder but this violence will not help at all.

growstuff
As your aware not all Muslim Marriages are conducted as your daughters was.
This solicitor claims ( from her own experience) that over 80% of British Muslims age under 30 have an unregistered Muslim marriage.
The consequences of this can be devastating.

www.ainakhanlaw.com/muslim-marriage-project-survey/

Apologies cannot type very easily on my phone.
🤨

And isn't Stephen Yaxley Lennon the very one to be leading.
A Patriot to look up to. Financed by an American Billionaire, just like any other man of the people, spread pro-Putin propaganda after the invasion of Poland. Yep, just the sort who has British interests at heart.
Seriously though, read his Wikipedia entry, if you have half an hour to spare.

Whitewavemark2

Bizarrely the populists leaders like Trump and to a lesser extent Farage, would, in normal times be the epitome of the elite. So one really does have to question their real motives.

I argued this earlier, both Farage and Trump represent the ruling elite, they are neither radicals or revolutionaries. And their first tactic is not to empower the masses but to attempt the influence the judiciary and get rid of human rights in order to make the masses powerless and do more easily manipulated by the ruling elite.
Sadly some see them as anti establishment and giving a voice to the ordinary person in the street, this, as we can see in the US, is far from true, with Trump undoubtedly ‘the establishment’ an ex business man chasing the dollar, already causing hardships for ordinary Americans and silencing the ordinary person in the street.

Yes therein lies the danger, but I do not think that at present the governing bodies have the answer.

And if you ask the working class in the USA if things are changing for the better I think you will find a large minority will answer negatively.

It is an enormous pity that this demonstration deteriorated into such a violent stramash. Typical of the sort of men just looking for a fight. However, the vast majority of those attending were there in good faith as they're unhappy at the way things are going here. Unfortunately those thugs have ruined the value of this mass expression of a lot of people's feelings.