Why do so many people support Reform, and Tommy Robinson

Galaxy

It isn't generally about skin colour ( of course it will be for some) it is I think about a complete change in particular areas. It has been too fast for many people, and it isn't as if this is only being manifested in this country.
When I am talking about groups not understanding each other, I mean by class rather than by ethnicity.

That’s exactly it.
Too much change way too fast.

Galaxy

It isn't generally about skin colour ( of course it will be for some) it is I think about a complete change in particular areas. It has been too fast for many people, and it isn't as if this is only being manifested in this country.
When I am talking about groups not understanding each other, I mean by class rather than by ethnicity.

I agree that there are a very small number of areas where that has happened. It affects by no means the majority of people in the country - certainly not the number people might assume from seeing last weekend's protest. Those areas need some special consideration - with the views of all people being listened to.

I think it's a great shame there isn't an inspirational, uniting figure for people in the "centre", most of whom aren't the slightest bit bothered by immigration and just want to get on with their lives in reasonable comfort and without hassle.

I'm also concerned about the divisions. To me, being British has always been about being tolerant and pragmatic, not about waving flags and going on about past wars and the Empire.

Sitting around a table at work during a coffee break with people from different backgrounds (and sometimes laughing at ourselves) is what being British is about.

It isn't generally about skin colour ( of course it will be for some) it is I think about a complete change in particular areas. It has been too fast for many people, and it isn't as if this is only being manifested in this country.
When I am talking about groups not understanding each other, I mean by class rather than by ethnicity.

I’m with growstuff in having worked with people from different cultures, faiths/none, ethnicity, class if I dare mention it.
My team had a huge holiday plan designed by a team member. We mapped out the religious holidays, Jews and Gentiles, Muslims, Hindu, no faith etc alongside the school holidays so we could try to cover things fairly. We covered Friday afternoon throughout the dark winters so our orthodox Jewish team member could leave at noon

I am concerned about what seems like growing division in our society, in other parts of Europe and America. So much sneering and shouting.

Galaxy

Yes it is a complex picture and certainly the villages I am thinking of don't of course have the levels of immigration that local cities do. But it isn't as if people from villages don't go to cities and see levels of immigration
It is also something to do with the disparaging of things (flags, culture, etc) that are very important to people. Maybe people who don't have a lot to cling on to.
I don't think either group are able really to understand the other. And that is going to prove increasingly problematic.

When they go to cities and see immigrants (presumably the ones with brown and black faces), are they personally affected? Does it really matter what colour people's skins are or what they're wearing, if they don't interact with them? Do they just spread second-hand gossip?

I disagree with you about "groups" understanding each other. I've spent most of my adult life in the company of people from different "groups". We've understood each other very well and laughed at our own idiosyncrasies, as well as respecting occasional cultural differences.

Yes it is a complex picture and certainly the villages I am thinking of don't of course have the levels of immigration that local cities do. But it isn't as if people from villages don't go to cities and see levels of immigration
It is also something to do with the disparaging of things (flags, culture, etc) that are very important to people. Maybe people who don't have a lot to cling on to.
I don't think either group are able really to understand the other. And that is going to prove increasingly problematic.

petra

Galaxy
It could be suggested that the deprived areas are somehow affected by immigration whereas the middle class villages aren’t.

In 2021, the average percentage of UK residents who didn't identify as "UK" was 9.7%.

Cambridge is one of the richest cities in the UK. The percent who didn't identify as "UK" was 26.9%, which is nearly three times the national average.

petra

Galaxy
It could be suggested that the deprived areas are somehow affected by immigration whereas the middle class villages aren’t.

That's not universally true. I know of an number of deprived areas where there are hardly any immigrants.

It is true that some towns and suburbs of cities have a high concentration of communities with an immigration background - mainly with the cheapest, less desirable housing. It depends on the industrial history of the places concerned.

What is also true is that there the majority of places in the UK are hardly affected by immigration. Horror stories about immigration are mainly second hand and gleaned from the media.

Thank you for responding Kandinsky. FWIW, I agree N and P seems increasingly divisive. I’m not asking you to say any more but the reason I kept trying to understand your concern about white working class men is my belief that the way some debates get horribly polarised is stopping debate.
It isn’t confined to this forum it’s nation wide and international

We need to talk and listen to points of view we disagree with

Galaxy
It could be suggested that the deprived areas are somehow affected by immigration whereas the middle class villages aren’t.

Iam64

I’m not deliberately ignoring you. I dip in and out of GN so miss lots.
I’m not going to post ( or read ) the N&P board anymore as it’s too argumentative and divisive - imo often intentionally.

Hopefully I’ll bump into you on other threads as I like your posts.

So every deprived area in my area has flags up, the middle class villages don't.
I am afraid I think this is very much about class.
Paul Mason recently tweeted about the riots describing 'football types on to their third can of lager'. He is describing most of the population of the villages that surround me (men who go to the football - if they can still afford it - and have a pint).
I am not referring to anyone on this thread but class does permeate this issue.

Caleo

I agree---a good post from Monica.

It raises another question: why do so many people who feel disenfranchised endorse simplistic solutions?

In one word: desperation.

You can’t dictate who reads or responds to your posts Kandinsky.

I see you’re ignoring my question about white working class men. I simply can’t understand what you’ve read on this forum that makes you reach that conclusion.

There was a discussion on News and Politics recently about what ‘working class ‘ means now. It was interesting. What do yiu identify as working class

Crikey.

growstuff

I’m not going to leave GN to please you.
Thankfully most people on here are lovely. It’s just the N&P board that’s toxic.

From now on I’ll completely ignore your posts ( & wwm’s & a few others )
I’ll ask that you ignore mine too!

Kandinsky

Ahh,
So now I’m suffering from mood swings or I’m on drugs.
This place is awful.

What you describe sounds like hell. I don't think people with their wits about them would want to hang around for long, if they found themselves in such a place.

Can you help me understand which posters hate white working class men Kandinsky? It’s a serious criticism to make. If you really believe it, name posters and give an example of posts that show ‘they hate them with a passion. It seeps out of their posts like poison’

Ahh,
So now I’m suffering from mood swings or I’m on drugs.
This place is awful.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Kandinsky

There are posters on this board who literally hate white working class men.
They hate them with a passion. It seeps out of their posts like poison.

😄😄 Are you feeling in a bad mood today?.

Gosh Kandinsky, I keep missing all of those.

There are posters on this board who literally hate white working class men.
They hate them with a passion. It seeps out of their posts like poison.

Kandinsky

*I think there are 5 or 6 posters on this forum who like to stir*
And not in a good way

Oh 100% - and they spend half their life on here too.
just wish there was a ‘hide poster’ option - then I wouldn’t have to read threads about reform voters being mentally ill

But neither the thread nor the article even mentioned Reform voters. It was about racism, which many Reform voters deny, and is not exclusive to the Right anyway.