Anti Catholic discrimination was alive and kicking well into the 1970.s and beyond in the west of Scotland .There are still areas near Glasgow where you,d be very brave or foolish to visit if you are RC .
It’s not subtle ,at interviews the first question would be what school did you go to….if it was the “wrong” answer the interview was cut short.
It’s not hearsay,it happened to me when I applied for jobs on leaving school.
Of course the bias is often loudly heard at Orange Walks when they ramp up their vile songs outside Catholic Churches ,even spitting on priests and verbally abusing anyone going in or out.
I was unlucky enough to be one of those verbally abuse when going into a church,the eegit doing it called me a fenian B and told me to go back to Ireland .I was only there to photograph a wedding …lol
I was raised in a mixed marriage my fathers family were OO members my mothers devout catholics.We children were sent to convent school.
Alas none of us married catholics and all 9 of my parents grandchildren were raised in the C of S.
The thing that amuses me is the fact that the eegits are so indoctrinated in all things royal …after all “hes OUR King Hes a Protestant” I ,m quite convinced the royals neither know nor care about any of us regardless of religious affiliation….so the divisiveness starts at the top
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News & politics
Racism is a result of poor psychological functioning
(375 Posts)Steve Taylor, a senior psychological university lecturer has produced an article which outlines how racism may develop, and the 5 stages leading to it.
“ Research shows a link between prejudice and poor psychological functioning, including poor relationships with insecurity and aggression. This can often be traced back to a disturbed and insecure childhood. Other research has shown a link between racism and anxiety, demonstrating that people become more prejudiced during challenging times.
More generally, studies demontrate that when people are made to feel insecure or anxious, they are more likely to identify with their national or ethnic groups. This enhances their self-esteem and their sense of identity, as a defence against insecurity and anxiety.
There are clearly social and economic factors that encourage racism, such as hierarchy and inequality. But the above research suggests that racism is largely a psychological defence mechanism against anxiety and insecurity.”
The 5 stages
1. L“the process begins when a person lacks a sense of security and identity, which generates a desire to affiliate themselves with a group. This affiliation strengthens their identity and provides a sense of belonging.
What’s wrong with this? Why shouldn’t we take pride in our national or religious identity, and feel a sense of brotherhood or sisterhood with others who share our identity?
2. Because group identity often leads to a second, more dangerous stage. In order to further strengthen their sense of identity, members of a group may develop antagonism towards other groups. Such hostility may make the group feel more defined and cohesive, as if they can see themselves more clearly in opposition to others.
3. A third stage of the process is when members of a group withdraw empathy from members of other groups, limiting their concern and compassion to their peers. They may act benevolently towards members of their own group but be indifferent or callous to anyone outside it. The withdrawal of empathy turns other human beings into objects, and enables cruelty and violence.
4. Fourth is the homogenisation of individuals belonging to other groups. People are no longer perceived in terms of their individual personalities or behaviour, but in terms of prejudices about the group as a whole. Any member of the group is a legitimate target and can be punished for the alleged transgressions of other individuals from the group. In contemporary terms, any asylum seeker can be punished for the alleged crime of an individual asylum seeker.
5. Finally, people may project their own psychological flaws and personal failings onto another group, as a strategy of avoiding responsibility. Other groups become scapegoats, and consequently are liable to attacked or even murdered. People with strong narcissistic and paranoid personality traits are especially prone to such projection, since they struggle to accept their personal faults, instead searching for others to take the blame.
In other words, racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health, a sign of anxiety and of a lack of identity and inner security. Psychologically healthy people with a stable sense of identity and security are very rarely (if ever) racist. They ultimately have no need to strengthen their sense of self through group identity.
The Conversation
16/9/25
My mother also a catholic growing up in London, Irish on my nana's side, she told me people could be terribly sniffy about catholics and quite suspicious about Irish back then in the '20s and '30s. Since that time I found out granddad was half Jewish, if that had been known as well, I guess there would have been a hellu'va lot more sniffing.
I went to a catholic convent, taught by Irish nuns, once the protestants (who were the fee payers) filed out when we, the poorer catholic contingent were all dragged up to the chapel for a saints day mass, boy did they bad mouth them once they were out of earshot, something along the lines of "lets pray for their protestant souls destined for eternal damnation" Amen! Just glad we were day girls, that was bad enough.
growstuff I led a peripatetic life as a child but, I did at times come across very strange attitudes to catholics and what we were and believed My mother grew up in London and remembered seeing lodging houses with notices 'No irish, no children, no dogs.
In my early 20s (mid 1960s) I went out a couple of times with someone who dropped me like a hot cake when he discovered I was a catholic, because he said his father had said he would disown him and cut him out of his will if he ever found out that he was dating anyone who. was a catholic.
Norah
M0nica
Norah There was a beleif that catholics would always put loyalty to their religion above loyalty to their country and there for they could not be trusted.
This always amused me because it flew in the face of all the evidence. A disproprtionate poportion of those serving in the army were Irish, including my own family, and this had been normal for centuries. At the battle of Waterloo, 40% of the British army was Irish.Thank you for answering.
I've never felt Catholic Christian discrimination, I know it exists.
I don't know whether it still exists, but it most certainly did exist in 1950s/1960s Merseyside (because I witnessed it) and had done for some time before that. Undoubtedly, it was because Liverpool was the disembarkation port from Ireland and many Irish ended up staying in the area in their own enclaves. Most of them were "economic migrants" and experienced the same kind of discrimination as those from the West Indies and Indian subcontinent. Some of them brought "troubles" from Ireland with them.
Catholic families from other backgrounds probably escaped that.
M0nica
Norah There was a beleif that catholics would always put loyalty to their religion above loyalty to their country and there for they could not be trusted.
This always amused me because it flew in the face of all the evidence. A disproprtionate poportion of those serving in the army were Irish, including my own family, and this had been normal for centuries. At the battle of Waterloo, 40% of the British army was Irish.
Thank you for answering.
I've never felt Catholic Christian discrimination, I know it exists.
Ps my friend was C of E, her father a lay preacher.
A friend didn't 'pass' the 11+ and went to the Convent school but took it again at 13 and came to the High School. She said she'd hated the Convent, our school was strict but the Convent was far worse.
MOnica I know my parents would have paid for my sister to go to a local convent school if she hadn't passed her 11+, so presumably that school took girls from all faiths.
Nevertheless, it was a fact in the 1950s that there was considerable discrimination against Catholics on Merseyside. In my cul-de-sac there was only one Catholic family. None of the rest of us knew the family well because they went to different schools. I don't know of any Catholics who went to the same secondary school I did.
I went to a convent grammar school in an ordinary English country town that was the only independent school in the town to accept girls of all faiths. We had several Jewish girls in every class. The local CofE school did not accept them. We had girls boarding who were from the Caribbean and other countries.
The local authority tookup most places in the school forcatholicgirls who passed the 11plus, that is why I was there. The school had aboarding house and many of the boarders wers not catholics, but like me their parents were in the forces, or diplomatic service and came as day girls when they passed theor 11 plus and became boarderswhen their parents were posted abroad. This was in the 1950s. .'Exclusively catholic schools have always been very porous.
Perhaps it's because Roman Catholics did tend to keep themselves separate from others; the children went to Catholic schools, both primary and senior. They till o to a large extent.
The girls at my High School were mainly Christian in those days, but of many denominations although there were two Jewish girls there too. Our Headmistress was a Quaker. The Jewish girls were excused morning assembly.
We really didn't get to know the girls who went to the Convent school.
I'm not sure if it is the same ow or less structured.
I suspect the anti-Catholicism was partly to do with class. My mother was brought up on Merseyside, which has many Catholics. Most of them had a working class Irish background and tended to live in parts of Liverpool. My mother's family definitely looked down their noses at certain people.
Norah There was a beleif that catholics would always put loyalty to their religion above loyalty to their country and there for they could not be trusted.
This always amused me because it flew in the face of all the evidence. A disproprtionate poportion of those serving in the army were Irish, including my own family, and this had been normal for centuries. At the battle of Waterloo, 40% of the British army was Irish.
growstuff Dooodledog My mother was anti-Catholic too. I don't know where the ideas came from.
Catholics don't know why anyone is anti-Catholic either, it's a mystery.
petra
The recipient of this taxi journey thought it wasn’t right. Listening to him he wondered why he didn’t go by train.
Listing to an ex home office minister from the last government it appears that once again it’s all in the detail of contracts between the HO and companies who supply this service.
So once again with all those clever brains a sharfter has run rings round the HO.
Unless it cost even more by train🤭
Dooodledog My mother was anti-Catholic too. I don't know where the ideas came from. I do know that my gt grandparents believed couples should only have one child because the world was over-populated. Catholic families were known for having huge families. As this was before contraception, presumably families with few children had to practice a certain amount of abstention, so maybe felt pious about it.
I don't know where the hatred of Jews and blacks came from. I suspect my mother's family had an influence, but I don't know why.
growstuff
Granmarderby10
It’s origins of racism in this country come from parents first who in turn pass it down generation to generation.
It stems often from a deep dissatisfaction with some elements of life that are then blamed on the foreigner arriving with different culture/religion/colour or linked to a sense of injustice or the perception of being disadvantaged by the presence of anyone not like them.
Indoctrination with racism starts young like it’s cousin misogyny.
I think early years school education has very little impact on this way of thinking because children go home to the same bigotry and will hang on to every word their family says until they reach teenage and there might be a window of opportunity to “break away”,
It all depends how dominant a parental view is, to what extent they are under the thumb psychologically, even physically.It's possible to break that cycle. My mother was extremely racist and anti-semitic. Her best friend (who is actually my godmother) was a neo-Nazi, whose obituary appeared in various neo-Nazi publications.
I was brought up in this environment. The area where I lived was white - there was a black boy and his sister at my primary school for a year, but I don't think I had ever seen anybody else with a black or brown face.
I started questioning it all when I was in my teens and then when I went to university, I rejected the idea of white supremacy completely. It was one of the main reasons I never felt close to my mother for the rest of her life.
However you were intelligent, Growstuff. What hope is there for children who lack curiosity ,or other motivation?
Gosh! That must have been tricky, growstuff. Where did your mum get those ideas from? Was it inherited for her?
My mother was very anti-Catholic, which I always found baffling. Her grandfather was big in the Orange movement, apparently, which probably had something to do with it. My mum used to think that if we payed with Catholic children they would try to convert us, which is ridiculous on so many levels. Even as a child I wouldn't go along with it, and in fact my husband is nominally RC, although he only goes to church of any sort for weddings and funerals. Part of me hopes my great grandfather is spinning in his grave, but most of me doesn't give it headspace.
Granmarderby10
It’s origins of racism in this country come from parents first who in turn pass it down generation to generation.
It stems often from a deep dissatisfaction with some elements of life that are then blamed on the foreigner arriving with different culture/religion/colour or linked to a sense of injustice or the perception of being disadvantaged by the presence of anyone not like them.
Indoctrination with racism starts young like it’s cousin misogyny.
I think early years school education has very little impact on this way of thinking because children go home to the same bigotry and will hang on to every word their family says until they reach teenage and there might be a window of opportunity to “break away”,
It all depends how dominant a parental view is, to what extent they are under the thumb psychologically, even physically.
It's possible to break that cycle. My mother was extremely racist and anti-semitic. Her best friend (who is actually my godmother) was a neo-Nazi, whose obituary appeared in various neo-Nazi publications.
I was brought up in this environment. The area where I lived was white - there was a black boy and his sister at my primary school for a year, but I don't think I had ever seen anybody else with a black or brown face.
I started questioning it all when I was in my teens and then when I went to university, I rejected the idea of white supremacy completely. It was one of the main reasons I never felt close to my mother for the rest of her life.
Doodledog I agree that yours and many others’ examples of the sheer waste of limited resources is shocking.
From what I have read recently, illegal imigrants awaiting a decision on their status are part of a failed, flawed system that was never logical or economically sound to start with.
Everyday appointments that those captured in those asylum hotels have to attend are mired in complications eg they may get moved around and around the country for years but their GP will remain the first one they registered with even if it is hundreds of miles away, hence the taxis.
Perhaps they might get fed and watered but have only a tiny amount of actual money
Whatever they are given has been offered to them.
They are not in a strong position to argue the toss with providers about the rights or wrongs.
If we find it impossible sometimes to successfully cancel an appointment online with jumbled communications, ..imagine the scenario.
It’s origins of racism in this country come from parents first who in turn pass it down generation to generation.
It stems often from a deep dissatisfaction with some elements of life that are then blamed on the foreigner arriving with different culture/religion/colour or linked to a sense of injustice or the perception of being disadvantaged by the presence of anyone not like them.
Indoctrination with racism starts young like it’s cousin misogyny.
I think early years school education has very little impact on this way of thinking because children go home to the same bigotry and will hang on to every word their family says until they reach teenage and there might be a window of opportunity to “break away”,
It all depends how dominant a parental view is, to what extent they are under the thumb psychologically, even physically.
petra
The recipient of this taxi journey thought it wasn’t right. Listening to him he wondered why he didn’t go by train.
Listing to an ex home office minister from the last government it appears that once again it’s all in the detail of contracts between the HO and companies who supply this service.
So once again with all those clever brains a sharfter has run rings round the HO.
Yes I did post that (perhaps it wasn't this thread).
So if an asylum seeker thinks it's not a good use of public money, we really are doing something wrong!
I had a course of physio a year or so ago, and there were people there (British people, local to the area) who got taxis provided because they were on benefits. Many of them regularly failed to attend, and didn't tell the hospital so they could cancel the taxi. They were just not there when the taxi arrived. The physios were annoyed, but there was nothing they could do.
Those of us who worked, or who had worked until retirement were not eligible for free taxis. They were just for people on benefits, including pension credit, and the level of disrespect of the non-attendees for the fact that they were costing the NHS money and taking the place of someone in the queue for physio was astounding. It was free to them, so it didn't matter if they didn't use them. I don't drive, so my husband dropped me off and sat in the waiting room for an hour with a book or crossword. Others used buses - sometimes more than one, as it's a semi-rural area with centralised healthcare. Those who drove in had to pay through the nose for the car park (as did my husband). It does sometimes feel as though you are penalised for working - money is wasted on British people too, not just immigrants.
The recipient of this taxi journey thought it wasn’t right. Listening to him he wondered why he didn’t go by train.
Listing to an ex home office minister from the last government it appears that once again it’s all in the detail of contracts between the HO and companies who supply this service.
So once again with all those clever brains a sharfter has run rings round the HO.
I certainly wondered just how far away they were going for that to be the taxi fare
It was a 500 mile round trip, CariadAgain.
If only our friends could have a taxi, paid for by the Government, to attend their oncology appointments which are a mere 35 miles away. ☹
foxie48
Having a taxi that cost £600 to see a GP is absolutely bonkers but one of the problems of having a group of asylum seekers housed in an area is that it can, of course, put additional pressure on local services. The sensible thing to do would be to employ locum GPs to travel to the accommodation to see people but I can just imagine the uproar from some people about asylum seekers getting preferential treatment. We are a civilised society and we do need to offer medical care to people regardless of where they have come from or how they arrived but it can be difficult to do that without attracting adverse comments. There's been lots of comments on GN about asylum seekers benefiting from the NHS and they have not usually been very kind.
Perhaps remarks are not kind because of the difficulties people face now in accessing GP and other NHS services?
People might be frustrated and upset if they have to wait 6+ weeks to see a GP, five years for an operation.
Just a thought.
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