Genocide is being committed in Gaza by Israel

Well he didn't disappoint! 15 minute speech went on for an hour of Trump telling Europe that their countries are being destroyed by unmanaged immigration, the UK has rewarded Hamas by recognising the state of Palestine and yet another attack on the Mayor of London, who is a "terrible" mayor and London wants to have "sharia" law. Oh and the UN is useless! TBH no one needs to listen to Trump's rambling, just go for Trump lite and listen to Farage, who I actually think is still capable of sane thought but only if you want to live in a country shaped by Farage and I don't!

Trump will give us his 'vision for the world'. I wonder what that will be?

ronib

Trump is speaking soon at the UN so there may be a change of plan re Iran? Oreo
Did anyone see Macron having to walk rather than be chauffeured in New York? Is this even possible?

Do you suppose Trump will say anything worthwhile about anything?
Or have any kind of plan?
Of course he will pontificate and about how so and so is a ‘nasty person’ and how someone else ‘is great’.
But don’t get your hopes up.

Trump is speaking soon at the UN so there may be a change of plan re Iran? Oreo
Did anyone see Macron having to walk rather than be chauffeured in New York? Is this even possible?

A lot to think about. Thanks.

Thank you Whitewave. Very informative.

Thanks for the info WWM

ronib

Babs03 Abbas is speaking at the UN via a video link. His message will be heard.

I read that Iran’s clerics have been banned from buying luxury or other goods from New York stores during their stay. The art of the small gesture?

It’s a pity that the US got cold feet about Iran, they needed to go further and may come to regret not doing enough when they had the chance.

Babs03 Abbas is speaking at the UN via a video link. His message will be heard.

I read that Iran’s clerics have been banned from buying luxury or other goods from New York stores during their stay. The art of the small gesture?

Thank you WWM for taking the time and effort to post this .

I can’t do links on the iPad, but I think that it worth bunging it on in full, as it might encourage those to read who don’t always bother with links (I of course am not guilty of that🙄😳)

The Conversation cont.

Will recognition make a difference?

The past few years have laid bare the limits of diplomacy in stopping the horrific human catastrophe unfolding in Gaza. This doesn’t leave much room for optimism. And, in a way, states taking brave diplomatic steps are, at the same time, exposing their reluctance to take more concrete action, such as sanctions, to press the government of Israel to end its war.

Still, the recognition brings the potential for snowball effects that would enhance the Palestinians’ international standing. They will be able to work more substantively with those governments who now recognise their state. More states may now also recognise Palestine, motivated by the fact others did the same.

And more recognition means better access to international forums, aid and legal instruments. For example, the UN’s recognition of Palestine as an observer state in 2011 allowed the International Court of Justice to hear South Africa’s case accusing Israel of genocide and the International Criminal Court to issue an arrest warrant for Netanyahu.

The implications for the Israeli government and some of its allies could also be significant. The US will now be isolated as the only permanent member of the UN Security Council not recognising Palestine. States that do not recognise Palestine will be in a dissenting minority and more exposed to critiques in international forums and public opinion.

This growing isolation may not force immediate changes and may not bother the current US administration, which often does not follow the logic of traditional diplomacy. Still, over time, the pressure on Israel and its allies to engage with a peace process may grow.

In the end, recognition from some of the world’s biggest players breaks their longstanding alignment with consecutive Israeli governments. It shows how strongly their public and governments feel about Israel’s threat to Palestinian statehood through annexation and occupation. For Palestinians, recognition strengthens their political and moral standing. For the government of Israel, it does the opposite.

But recognition alone is not enough. It must be accompanied by sustained efforts to end the war in Gaza, hold perpetrators of violence accountable and revive peace efforts towards ending the occupation and allow Palestinians their rightful sovereignty alongside Israel.

23/09/25

The Conversation

What does it mean to recognise Palestine?

Recognising Palestine means acknowledging the existence of a state that represents the Palestinian people. Following from that, it also means that the recogniser can develop full diplomatic relations with representatives of this state – which would include exchanging embassies or negotiating government-level agreements.

Why have these countries moved together – and why now?

Diplomatic recognition, when done in concert, carries more heft than isolated gestures – and governments know this. A year or so ago, Spain tried to get European Union members to recognise Palestine together and when this was not possible opted to coordinate its recognition with Norway and Ireland only. Further away, a cluster of Caribbean countries (Barbados, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, the Bahamas) also recognised Palestine around the same time.

By acting together, countries amplify the message that Palestinian statehood is not a fringe idea, but a legitimate aspiration backed by a growing international consensus. This collective recognition also serves to shield individual governments from accusations of unilateralism or political opportunism.

This wave of recognition comes now because of concern that Palestinian statehood is under threat, perhaps more than ever before. In their recognition statements, the UK and Canada cited Israel’s settlements in the West Bank in their reasoning.

The Israeli government has also revealed plans that amount to annexing Gaza, the other area that ought to belong to Palestinians. This is after months of assault on its people, which the UN commission of inquiry on the occupied Palestinian Territories and Israel found amounts to genocide. Public sentiment has also shifted dramatically in support of Palestine, adding to the pressure on governments.

Why do some say recognition isn’t legal?

Israel and some of its allies argue that the recognition is illegal because Palestine lacks the attributes of a functioning state, such as full control of its territory or a centralised government. Legal opinion on whether Palestine meets the criteria of statehood is divided. But, regardless, these criteria are not consistently used to recognise states.

In fact, many states have been recognised well before they had complete control over their borders or institutions. Ironically, the US recognised Israel in 1948, refuting critics that this was premature due to the lack of clear borders. Recognition has, therefore, always been political.

But even if we take a more legal perspective, the international community, through numerous UN and other texts has long recognised the right of Palestinians to have a state of their own.

Does recognition ‘reward Hamas’, as Israel claims?

Recognising a state does not mean you recognise those who govern it. At the moment, for example, many states do not recognise Taliban rule, but this doesn’t mean they have stopped recognising the existence of Afghanistan as a state.

Similarly, the fact that Netanyahu is under arrest warrant of the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity has not resulted in states withdrawing their recognition of the state of Israel and its people. Recognising a state is not the same as endorsing a specific government.

Not only that but all of the states that recently recognised Palestine have explicitly said that Hamas must play no role in a future government. France said that although it recognises the state of Palestine it won’t open an embassy until Hamas releases the hostages.

@foxie, yes the evidence is compelling, so compelling now that only those who support genocide would seek to fly in the Face of this.
And the very fact that Mahmoud Abbas is not allowed to speak at the UN in person is just insupportable and speaks to how dangerously biased Trump is.

I’d forgotten the Mossad connect, but I do now remember reading about it.

People like Trump and Johnson for that matter are such easy meat for the spooks.

I watched the BBC programme last night and although knowing what is happening in Gaza it was hard to see.

Trump will address the UN assembly today after peddling misinformation about vaccines and paracetamol. How can anyone take this man seriously. He will carry on supporting Israel in the face of so many countries supporting a state of Palestine.

I think the evidence coming out of Gaza is so compelling that governments are being forced to accept that the Israeli government is committing genocide and don't wish to be complicit. Also the increasing encroachment into Palestinian territory in the West Bank is such that it's impossible to ignore the illegal settlers which is further jeopardising there being enough territory for the Palestinians to have a viable state. I also think governments have accepted that Trump will allow Netanyahu to do what he wants. Epstein was said to have links to Mossad, is there something Netanyahu can hold over Trump?

growstuff

Countdown to deletion.

😄😄 love it.

Deletion watch!

Anyone watch Panorama?

Just a programme that confirms everything we’ve been saying.

I suppose the deniers will soon be claiming it to be all lies and the BBC is actually Hamas in disguise.

Anyway, back to Gaza ... I bet Gazans would be grateful for a couple of packets of paracetamol.

Allira

It's surreal.

Babies have 80 different vaccinations?

Is that in the US?

UK babies have nowhere near that number.

It's surreal.

Babies have 80 different vaccinations?

Just watched the news with Trump prattling in his inimitable manner about paracetomol and autism.
Can’t believe this individual with an IQ of about 10 can possibly be a world leader. It’s terrifying, that’s what it is, truly terrifying!!

Prancing about on the world stage is what lame duck leaders do.

I’m just surprised anyone thinks that left wing politics exists today.