Why don’t we use the military re stop the boats?

Yes foxie48, folk are complaining, oh it's only one back and a million in, but I read that the point is, that the precedent and practice has now been established, in only one year, and that things will progress now. And we will see.

CariadAgain, am I allowed to say 'Jeezo!' that was a close call. Glad you didn't go.
About the brothel, yes, there was no understanding about trafficking back then.

Thanks petra, my knowledge of history is better than that of geography.

Excuse typos, sorry!

Primrose53

foxie48

Not my understanding but happy to apologise if I am wrong! Perhaps different boats have different rules.

OK.

This might help you understand how vital volunteer shore crew are. They are fully trained so the lifeboat crew knows everything will be in order so they can get on with their job.

rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/what-it-takes-to-launch-a-lifeboat

Thanks Primrose

I did know there are mon-sea going crew who are vital to the operations to.

I'm sorry your friend felt like that. I think she was wrong and should have tried to explain to those people that the RNLI does not discriminate whose lives to save and who not to save when people are at risk of drowning.

DH donates regularly, he feels it is important having spent much of his life at sea.

escaped probably because it's not an easy issue to solve. The Conservatives had a long time trying to sort it and didn't, the LP has had a year and so far have improved the rate of dealing with people once they are here, have reduced the number of hotels being used to house asylum seekers and managed to get an agreement with France to send people back. The trouble is most people want quicker results and are frustrated and angry, but it is a global issue.

escaped

I have every respect for coastguards, RNLI etc. (My own father drowned at sea, and his body was rescued).

This is neither a naive nor an impatientcomment, but seeing as RNLI has been rescuing immigrants in small boats since around 2017, why 8 years further down the line, and with a significant increase in channel crossings, why has no one come up with a more effective solution to stop the valuable time spent on the water over this issue? Do we have to wait until 2035 to see any real results?

Can I ask why 2035? What is due to happen then?

I have every respect for coastguards, RNLI etc. (My own father drowned at sea, and his body was rescued).

This is neither a naive nor an impatientcomment, but seeing as RNLI has been rescuing immigrants in small boats since around 2017, why 8 years further down the line, and with a significant increase in channel crossings, why has no one come up with a more effective solution to stop the valuable time spent on the water over this issue? Do we have to wait until 2035 to see any real results?

Maremia

Interesting Petra, on what side of the border, Turkey or Bulgaria, were the boats seized?
Just trying to figure out the migration route.

The Bulgaria side. That border has known to be corrupt for years. The Americans poured millions of dollars into that crossing when Bulgaria joined the EU but it didn’t improve that much.
I can’t speak for Turkey but I do know that all police/ border guards are on a very low wage. Added to that corruption is a way of life.

foxie48

Not my understanding but happy to apologise if I am wrong! Perhaps different boats have different rules.

OK.

This might help you understand how vital volunteer shore crew are. They are fully trained so the lifeboat crew knows everything will be in order so they can get on with their job.

rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/what-it-takes-to-launch-a-lifeboat

Perhaps they do.

I would think a seagoing crew member would want to check over to make sure the boat was sea worthy anyway!
Perhaps just cleaning.

Not my understanding but happy to apologise if I am wrong! Perhaps different boats have different rules.

Primrose53

foxie48

Primrose How strange, cleaning of the RNLI boats is done by the crew, yes they are volunteers but cleaning and checking equipment is part of the function. and not usually done by volunteers who support the charity in other ways "Shore leave" is normally the time crew members are not available for duty. I'm sad that someone would stop volunteering because she didn't approve of the people who's lives are being saved, it's a good job the RNLI crew members don't feel like this and they don't seem to.

I suggest you check it out before disputing what I wrote.

She fundraised for many years for them before working as shore crew and raised thousands.

Yes, shore crew can help clean and maintain the boats but do not go to sea. They can fundraise too.

foxie48

Primrose How strange, cleaning of the RNLI boats is done by the crew, yes they are volunteers but cleaning and checking equipment is part of the function. and not usually done by volunteers who support the charity in other ways "Shore leave" is normally the time crew members are not available for duty. I'm sad that someone would stop volunteering because she didn't approve of the people who's lives are being saved, it's a good job the RNLI crew members don't feel like this and they don't seem to.

I suggest you check it out before disputing what I wrote.

She fundraised for many years for them before working as shore crew and raised thousands.

Maremia

In that brothel, I wonder did the Police check the identity of the girls to find if any had been trafficked as sex slaves?
Glad you got rid of that problem.

I'm not sure just how much knowledge of trafficking was around at that point in history - the 1980s.

I know I was definitely still pretty naive up into my 30's (the 1980s). The employer I acquired in the 1980s blasted every last shred of naivety out of existence one way or another....as they were * and I had to learn to "second guess" them every step of the way.

Mind you - I'm the person that daylight has only very recently dawned on that a job offer I had back in the 1970s (my early 20's) might not have been all it seemed. Having had a couple of Arabic boyfriends in a row back then and eventually realising they weren't the ordinary middle class guys I had initially thought they were and I can't remember what country an Under-Secretary of State (or whatever he told me his job was back in his own country - as it went pretty much straight over my head...) that I went out with said he was from. But I do remember him at one point offering me a sort of executive secretarial post back in his own country - at £100 a week. That was blimmin' good money at that time and I didn't think anything of being offered that job....I believed him that that is what it was and knew that I could do a high level secretarial job (well I was only early 20's......and defo as naive as they came). These days I am certainly now wondering whether it really was a secretarial job or no.....but we didn't have the Internet/You Tube on it etc etc to tell us just what happened to some women that went out to those countries as "models" and the like.

Guess it was the fact that I was attractive - rather than beautiful - that was the reason I was offered a "proper job", rather than "modelling".....as I knew a look in the mirror had me going "She's 7 out of 10 - not enough looks for a model"...as I was a realist in that sense. But I did know I was a good secretary and have been considered for high-level jobs in it and so that didnt seem unreasonable to me.

In that brothel, I wonder did the Police check the identity of the girls to find if any had been trafficked as sex slaves?
Glad you got rid of that problem.

Interesting Petra, on what side of the border, Turkey or Bulgaria, were the boats seized?
Just trying to figure out the migration route.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

Aveline

Current job application forms require national insurance numbers and for many jobs a section saying they have the right to be here. Sometimes passport numbers and photos are required. Illegal migrants can only be working in black market jobs.

Food delivery drivers

Turkish barbers

Car washes

Nail bars

Prostitution

Indeed! Apart from the last one, it would be too difficult to raid.

LOL - there are ways to deal with it if one finds a brothel has set up nearby undercover.

1. Tell EVERYONE - shopkeepers, nearby schools, local councillors.

2. Most of all - tell the local newspaper - who might just decide to send in a male reporter as an ostensible customer.

Within a week or two:
- find out the local police have called at the brothel and told them to "move on for your own safety - as the local residents have made it very plain they don't want you here".

#cough....

GrannyGravy13

Aveline

Current job application forms require national insurance numbers and for many jobs a section saying they have the right to be here. Sometimes passport numbers and photos are required. Illegal migrants can only be working in black market jobs.

Food delivery drivers

Turkish barbers

Car washes

Nail bars

Prostitution

Turkish kebab shops.

Yep...I had the mortifying experience way back (in the 1980s) where - in the course of having to take in lodgers when I first got a mortgage I landed up with one of them living in my house!!!!

I know...I know....I hadnt got the foggiest to start with (whoops - pleads naivety of being only in my 30's). I was used to taking in a succession of lodgers of a variety of nationalities in my university city I'm from. Cue for a Turkish guy that told me he was a student at the university. Followed by telling me he had a "part-time" job at the local Turkish kebab shop and me noticing no evidence whatsoever of him doing any studying and plenty of evidence of that "part-time" job being a full-time one.

Yep....he got virtually literally thrown out by me for a combination of me realising that he was not a student at all, but he was someone who didnt do a scrap of his own housework (despite the laid-down rules at outset that lodgers did their own) and therefore his bedroom literally stank after a few weeks and I could smell it from feet away.

I was mortified all round when those realisations dawned....and hence throwing him out with just a few hours notice as I recall. The last straw was feeling a bit itchy and finding myself sneaking into his bedroom to spray it with anti-bugs stuff and then realising that was a ridiculous thing to feel the need of in my home - and kicking him out.

Cheers, Petra.🙂

Whitewavemark2

Teazel2

LizzieDrip

Why don’t you ignore international law then ?

Because nann8, the UK is better than that.

Far from being ‘weak’, that makes us strong!

No it doesnt.

Adhering go the rule of law has been something that the U.K. has always upheld and is part of why our system has been so envied and copied throughout the world.

It doesnt make us strong when we cannot control our borders, and we are not the envy of the world, we are being laughed at for being so soft!

growstuff my family have also been involved and supported them. The RNLI is a charity dear to my heart.

Luckygirl3

*She got so fed up with people wandering past and saying they were not donating to the RNLI any more because they are just a migrant taxi service that she decided to leave as she actually felt they were correct.*

I am sure they can do without someone like that ........

Part of the ethos of the RNLIU is that they do not judge those whose lives they are saving. Often people are in danger through their own stupidity, but the volunteer crew make no judgement - they just do their best to save them.

It seems your friend was not the right person for the job.

The RNLI doesn't need people like that.

I have a lifetime of involvement with the RNLI. None of the crew would ever let anybody drown without trying to help.

Luckygirl3

Primrose53

Well said Allira 👏

The pro migrants always resort to using language that they hope will irritate or upset those who hold different views.

It is meaningless nastiness.

I don't think anyone on here is pro illegal immigration. I think everyone is tired of the evil gang leaders screwing money out of people with promises if a new life and risking their lives in the process.
But a lot of us are pro humanity in the midst of this chaotic situation. And pro law.
It is a complex situation that needs carefully thought through solutions that meet the demands of both humanity and the law. There is not going to be a quick or simple answer, but for sure we must not go down a route where anyone, RNLI or navy, stand by while people drown.

I don't believe you had read my post when you replied to Primrose, Luckygirl.

She got so fed up with people wandering past and saying they were not donating to the RNLI any more because they are just a migrant taxi service that she decided to leave as she actually felt they were correct.

I am sure they can do without someone like that ........

Part of the ethos of the RNLIU is that they do not judge those whose lives they are saving. Often people are in danger through their own stupidity, but the volunteer crew make no judgement - they just do their best to save them.

It seems your friend was not the right person for the job.